Launch BBC One North

[Richard]

Is there was a BBC ONE North HD feed or is it just on the existing SD regions for now?

[Jimbo2022]

Missed it today does anyone know when North continuity started on Saturday?

[Inspector Sands]

Is there was a BBC ONE North HD feed or is it just on the existing SD regions for now?

The latter. Its not available by itself, just on the northern regions

[IanJRedman]

Although it's worth saying that all the English Regions do exist in HD depending on platform, albeit with upscaled regional opts in some cases. Users of Sky Glass and Virgin can see BBC One North in HD.

[jacklufcfan1998]

How come they haven't done something similar with BBC 2 - is it because the Network version of the channel broadcasts to both England and Scotland?

[Markymark]

How come they haven't done something similar with BBC 2 - is it because the Network version of the channel broadcasts to both England and Scotland?

BBC 2 in England is not equipped to do regional opt outs, so providing a BBC 2 North would require changes at the code and mux centres. Not likely to be cost effective

[Jimbo2022]

BBC2 used to be regional. But they used to share playout with BBC1.

When the Philips test card G appeared on BBC2 in the afternoon in the 1979s it was in order to send news feeds down the line from the regional centres.

Even though BBC1 broadcast your regional news and had regional continuity the news reports aparently had to be sent over BBC2's local playout. It meant the network feed had to be switched to a regional test card with different music.

During this time regional news would be sent over the network but viewers never saw that had there been no oot out you would have seen news reports played out for your local 1755 bulletins instead.

BBC2 remained regional and could opt out of network but they could not both opt out at the same time

Only BBC1 now has regional splits so BBC1 North can exist on four northern regions.

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BBC1 North thus evening still d is d have different continuity after 1900. The announcements were very similar. I thought if a northern voice was on network that came from Salford.

All was the same including prior to The Hit List at 1845. But before the football at 1930 different announcements went out in the north but we're very similar. Two different northern voices. So where was the north opt out announcer? The network announcer was the same person who had been on in the afternoon.

Thanks.

[Markymark]

BBC2 used to be regional. But they used to share playout with BBC1.

When the Philips test card G appeared on BBC2 in the afternoon in the 1979s it was in order to send news feeds down the line from the regional centres.

Even though BBC1 broadcast your regional news and had regional continuity the news reports aparently had to be sent over BBC2's local playout. It meant the network feed had to be switched to a regional test card with different music.

During this time regional news would be sent over the network but viewers never saw that  had there been no oot out you would have seen news reports played out for your local 1755 bulletins instead.

BBC2 remained regional and could opt out of network but they could not both opt out at the same time

Only BBC1 now has regional splits so BBC1 North can exist on four northern regions.

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 In the analogue era,  a BBC English region could opt on BBC 1 or BBC 2, but not both at the same time (although I think Bristol  could)?

BBC 1 and BBC 2 were separate distribution networks, both of which passed through your local regional studio on the way to the appropriate regional transmiiters.

If the BBC needed to feed material from London to one or more regions, it could either do it while they were opted out, or they could use the test card 'dead' time on either 1 or 2, and locally replace the test card with locally originated Test Card (G as you point out)

Feeding stuff back to London didn't involve any of the above, though places like Norwich and Southampton only had one primary BT vision circuit back to London, so the BBC had to share and co ordinate with Anglia and Southern, to avoid any comedy moments. I think that's why when the BBC were at Southampton or Portsmouth covering a football match,  they rigged their own microwave link back to London?

[Inspector Sands]

BBC2 used to be regional. But they used to share playout with BBC1.

It's nothing to do with sharing playout. BBC1 and BBC2 have come from adjacent rooms using the same infrastructure forever.

The difference is with TX chains. In the days of analogue the distribution of the two channels went via the regional centres to the transmitters and there were seperate transmitters and chains for BBC1 and 2.

Digital is different, BBC1 and 2 along with the other BBC services are multiplexed into a single data stream and transmitted together. This is done with statistical multiplexing  - whereby the services in that multiplex share and adjust theit bitrate according to demand.

In the early days of DTT the issue was that like in the analogue days they sent the multiplex to each region and then it went out of to the transmitters from there. To opt into BBC1 the region had to remove BBC1 from the multiplex and replace it with the local one. That - at the time - was difficult and expensive to do if it was a variable bit rate, so BBC1 had a fixed bitrate which was inefficient in terms of how much could fit on the Mux. Doing that with both BBC1 and 2 even more so

So the decision was taken to remove all English regional programmes off BBC2 and not replicate the regionality in the digital world. It also - later down he line - saved the cost of having another set of regions in satellite with all the costs that entails

That bitrate problem has gone away now as all the regions are sent back to a central place for encoding and multiplexing so it's more feasible, but 20 years on there's no desite to have regional BBC2 again

[Jimbo2022]

Thanks for that explanation.

So it is possible to do regionalisation but makes sense to just have it on bbc1.

Very similar announcements on North tonight. I think that continuity is in Salford but where was network coming from as I thought Salford sometimes hosted network continuity? But I may be wrong.

[Steve in Pudsey]

In the analogue era,  a BBC English region could opt on BBC 1 or BBC 2, but not both at the same time (although I think Bristol  could)?

I think Leeds, Newcastle and Manchester managed it once, with the SuperLeague Show and the regional politics programmes going out at the same time. I suspect Manchester Comms (as was) fed the SuperLeague Show as though it was the network feed leaving the regional infrastructure to opt out and do the politics progs.

[technologist]

In the analogue era,  a BBC English region could opt on BBC 1 or BBC 2, but not both at the same time (although I think Bristol  could)?

I think Leeds, Newcastle and Manchester managed it once, with the SuperLeague Show and the regional politics programmes going out at the same time. I suspect Manchester Comms (as was) fed the SuperLeague Show as though it was the network feed leaving the regional infrastructure to opt out and do the politics progs.

Most regions could opt in both networks at the same time …
The key issue was that one may be a non sync opt.
Often a regional would lock to BBC one and then synchronously opt.
So to opt simultaneously  on BBC two would meant that station output was non sync
To BBC 2 …..
also besides have synchronisers and being able to put them in the right place,
Which was not that straight forward even when you had them.  

The opt was actually in the DCSIS domain Which meant  having a coder  available.
This was not a problem in the as any cut in the DCSIS was non sync in NICAM 
Even if it were sync in video. 
(DCSIS was not locked to video at all 
and the emitted NICAM subcarrier was locked to incoming NICAM clock )
And so there was full reframing  at the transmitter,
So that the receivers always got continuous NICAM sequence. So no audio splats.
It also meant the strictly speaking lip sync was lost ….
But as the audio was being delayed by 16ms in average (ideally less and rarely 32ms)
It sort if compensated for a field delay  in the video ….

All regions had two operational opt chains and a spare one on the shelf
Except Southampton who installed it !
The Nations had 4 sets of equipment usually all installed.

I’m certain the BBC 2 super league Manchester Comms diverted the network feed….
Using the spare kit ( they actually has a further set on the shelf for MR LS NT )
Birmingham had a spare as it was the alternate network playout …
but it basically used both existing opt chains and just changed the network source identity
In the ITS test waveform to spoof London . This mean you knew it was working …
Kit for standby use often does nit work when you need it
Red Bee and ch4 spring to mind …..

[Inspector Sands]

Wouldn't BBC1 and 2 be in sync with each other, considering they came (and still do) from the same timing reference?

[Markymark]

Wouldn't BBC1 and 2 be in sync with each other, considering they came (and still do) from the same timing reference?

Back in the day when I was a lad,  I'd often take a look at off air BBC 1 and 2 and measure their relative sync. They were usually well within a line of each other.
The only time they'd occasionally differ was when there was a long form sports event, normally on BBC 2, perhaps because the OB's SPG had drifted away from London's after a few hours?

[Steve in Pudsey]

I guess if they weren't near enough in sync that afternoon BBC2 news bulletin would have been a real inconvenience? You wouldn't want to sync to BBC1 first thing and then resync to BBC2 during the afternoon only to resync to BBC1 again half an hour later, it would be too disruptive to editing in stations that only only had one pulse chain.

Edit: saying that, they used to cope with syncing for Nationwide contributions and then resyncing to opt out back in the day.