Plans for BBC One HD

[Markymark]

A much faster switch in France. On fransat everything is hd I think. DTT in UK started before France but ferryside which was dtt only first was 2007.

Ferryside was a small scale experiment for DSO. All analogue except for BBC 2 was switched off in March 2005, BBC 2 analogue continued there until 2009, because of the BBC 2/ BBC 2W thing on DTT/D-Sat.

There, that's a good Pub Quiz question.

[Brekkie]

The process was so dragged out in the UK - partly perhaps out of technical necessity but I think it took the best part of 4 years for DSO to be rolled out, and that was a decade after DTT had been turned on, so it was nearly 15 years from the launch of DTT (where we were one of the pioneers) to the last region going DTT only. And since then we've basically stalled and seen COM7/8 come and go, with seemingly no planning from Freeview, the PSBs or the government on how to progress. I've posted in the mass media thread how the platform could switch to DVB-T2 as standard across 5 or 6 muxes, perhaps retaining a legacy SD DVB-T mux for now which could potentially be subsequently reconfigured for 4K trials - an areas where other countries are already way ahead of us thanks to us lagging on HD. That would see at least 24 channels in HD, enough to cover any channel with at least a 1% share of the audience and a few more too.

For me now not broadcasting your main channels in HD should be seen as unacceptable as not having an on demand player. It's ridiculous how so many decisions regarding spectrum have been made over the last decade to ensure HD video content can be delivered to mobiles, and decisions made around fibre to ensure the same over the internet - but the main way in which the majority of programming content is still delivered has been left behind. Indeed not sure if the stats back up the theory but I'd have thought with the explosion of rival subscription streaming services that more people might be turning to Freeview to complement them as they move away from relying on Sky or cable for additional content.

[RR]

Even Ireland is HD for main channels but they don't have regional variations.

Is that true? Their main commercial channel, Virgin Media One isn't on their equivalent of Freesat - Saorsat - and is just SD on their DTT - Saorview. Both only have the main two RTE channels in HD, and no others.

I'm not sure how that is more advanced than the UK where all the main channels are available in HD in all of the main platforms - just not the full set of BBC regional variations in some platforms, and not regionalized advertising on C4 HD.

[Kunst]

Many France 3 regional versions are in HD, actually; even broadcasting-wise, not just in technical terms

But that's I guess partly because Canal+ switched to MPEG-4

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This continual messing around is making the UK broadcast infrastructure a laughing stock when the rest of Europe has hd as standard and we get crappy 576x544 or576x720 pictures.

Not good enough in 2022!

I'm not sure that's a fair assessment.

The public service broadcasters in Europe that have regional variations have very similar cost and bandwidth challenges to us, and as such many of them still broadcast their regional variations in SD with non-regional versions in HD, much like the BBC services here. Off the top of my head I know that the regional versions (on satellite) of France 3, Rai 3 in Italy and WDR in Germany are all broadcast in SD.

As for BBC Two NI HD, it's important to remember that it's the first BBC channel being carried on a Sky operated transponder, not one of the BBC's own, so the infrastructure to encode and distribute the channel is different to the other services. The link between the BBC and Sky has clearly gone down, but that's ok as the channel is still testing and they're likely still figuring things out. It's possible they tried out one distribution method, hit some issues with it, and are in the process of changing it. Just give them chance, it's better they take their time and get it right rather than rush launching a service and having it fail much more publicly later.

You're correct about Rai 3 channels, but the "die Dritten" channels are all in HD, although they do that but having the splitting the channels only for some regional programmes, saving a lot of bandwidth (but reducing HD quality during sub-regional programmes)

I don't know how the practice is called, but there are limitations with that on Sky in particular, AFAIK; because of that, BBC needs a lot more space

[Jimbo2022]

On DTT yes virgin media television is SD but on sky virgin media 1 as Nd 2 are hd and virgin media 3;is SD.

BUT it is easier if n Ireland due to no regionalisation.

[mici01]

..and WDR in Germany are all broadcast in SD.

Nope, switched to full HD last year. And even before that only the regional programs were SD, the rest is HD.

You're correct about Rai 3 channels, but the "die Dritten" channels are all in HD, although they do that but having the splitting the channels only for some regional programmes, saving a lot of bandwidth (but reducing HD quality during sub-regional programmes)



I don't know how the practice is called, but there are limitations with that on Sky in particular, AFAIK; because of that, BBC needs a lot more space

It's called dynamic PMT switching. And yes older Sky boxes are the reason it isn't used in the UK, as they couldn't handle the switch. But with such a setup you also can seamlessly switch, you always need a little switching pause.

[IndigoTucker]

We are in the very odd position this evening of BBC One HD showing DIY SOS, but BBC ONE West Midlands showing a repeat of the BBC2 show “Yorkshire Midwives on Call”, for no particular reason? The south coast are showing “Commando”, but each region has different episodes, West Midlands and North regions have different episodes of Yorkshire Midwives, whilst nations, East Midlands, London and East have DIY SOS. Is this some sort of test to output different shows to different regions?

[Steve in Pudsey]

That is curious. It's a different episode to the one BBC Yorkshire are showing, and Yorks and Lincs (Hull) have a third episode. All had separate local continuity announcements with the same script (including "now on one"). North East are showing yet another episode but had the same CA as Leeds.

West, South, South East and South West (and CI) are showing separate episodes of a programme about Commandos, again with a "now on one" announcement, and different voices on each one.

It does seem like something is afoot here.

Edit after your edit - I was going to suggest that it might be some kind of test of a centralised or automated playout facility but it sounded too far fetched!

Further edit: the Yorkshire feed had the customary cue dots over the EastEnders credits suggesting that the Leeds gallery is in circuit.

[excel99]

I'm sure something similar happened in the North of England with Yorkshire Firefighters last year - each Northern region got a different episode before the full series went out on BBC2

[Brekkie]

When did C5 lose the rights to Yorkshire to the BBC? 

Seems to have been some seemingly random opting lately, but West Midlands getting a programme about Yorkshire seems to be stretching the definition of "BBC North" to that of a Londoner.   Odd too it was in the West Midlands but not the East.

[Inspector Sands]

No idea what the scheduling is about, but it's not a test of anything as far as I know.

The way the regions get to air has changed and its become easier and more flexible to play different things in different regions, but that's not that new and it's been done lots since, such as This is England

[IndigoTucker]

If its not a test, its just really odd and pointless. Why play out random and different episodes of non-regional filler in different regions in primetime? Even Channel Islands got a different show than other regions.

[Markymark]

If its not a test, its just really odd and pointless. Why play out random and different episodes of non-regional filler in different regions in primetime? Even Channel Islands got a different show than other regions.

It seems odd. Also for some they will have a different programme on HD, than on SD, so confusing (for them) regarding scheduling.

Though  with HD services stuffed out of the way, way down the Freeview EPG I wonder how many ordinary folk even know they are there

By the way, last time I saw Italy's RAI, they had a DOG on the SD versions of their channels, giving the LCN for the equivalent HD versions

[Transmission]

I know BBC One North is launching very soon but this doesn't seem to be related. It's happened a few times in the past where a BBC Two series about a certain part of the country has had a BBC One run in that region (there was one about coastguards I think?) so it seems to be that again, I think.

[Roger Darthwell]

I know BBC One North is launching very soon but this doesn't seem to be related. It's happened a few times in the past where a BBC Two series about a certain part of the country has had a BBC One run in that region (there was one about coastguards I think?) so it seems to be that again, I think.

Wait.....what? I thought that BBC One North had been quietly ditched!