BBC Four & CBBC to close

[BBCMeridian]

Well yes the continuity links did change but not before September 2001, before CBBC went widescreen all of the links were presented in the same style before it was split and no, to me it's not progress, it's damage on what the BBC did by separating the CBBC audience, it's like trying to break up the UK, that's why I'm opposed to two separate children's channels, it was just nice when an older and younger audience come together to watch CBBC, obviously tho they don't have to watch a programme that doesn't suit their age but it's better than having to stop watching CBeebies and move over to CBBC, and kids did not say it was a joke with CBBC being merged.

Right again I ask the question do you have kids ?  If you did then you would know it’s not a good idea to have them together. I don’t know what your obsession is with merging cbbc and CBeebies back into one service again is. Believe me it was a joke because I was part of the CBBC audience when they split and it was one of the best things they did. 13 year olds do not want to watch Tweenies and not many 3 years olds want to watch Newsround.  
The links where been split as early as 2000. CBBC on Choice happened because the BBC wanted to split into two separate children strands but they had to get the government and BBC board of governors to approve so CBBC on choice was the solution until CBeebies got the permission to launch. 

The reason CBeebies is so popular is because it’s aimed specifically at Pre School age so parents know it’s safe. Start adding it back into CBBC and it becomes a mess and nobody gets any benefit from it.   No doubt if this was in the late 80s you would be moaning about CBBC existing in the first place and how it was better when the continuity announcer and globe introduced the children’s shows

Fine we'll just have to agree to disagree on the discussion then, oh and on your point about the separate links, that didn't happen on BBC One and BBC Two until September 2001, the last time the links were all together was 31st August 2001, as seen on this clip.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0EJo_N29Tc
 Anyway we'll just have to agree to disagree that you like the separate brands where as I don't, never have and never will, one of the worst things to ever happen on the BBC.

[Col87]

Right again I ask the question do you have kids ?  If you did then you would know it’s not a good idea to have them together. I don’t know what your obsession is with merging cbbc and CBeebies back into one service again is. Believe me it was a joke because I was part of the CBBC audience when they split and it was one of the best things they did. 13 year olds do not want to watch Tweenies and not many 3 years olds want to watch Newsround.  
The links where been split as early as 2000. CBBC on Choice happened because the BBC wanted to split into two separate children strands but they had to get the government and BBC board of governors to approve so CBBC on choice was the solution until CBeebies got the permission to launch. 

The reason CBeebies is so popular is because it’s aimed specifically at Pre School age so parents know it’s safe. Start adding it back into CBBC and it becomes a mess and nobody gets any benefit from it.   No doubt if this was in the late 80s you would be moaning about CBBC existing in the first place and how it was better when the continuity announcer and globe introduced the children’s shows

Fine we'll just have to agree to disagree on the discussion then, oh and on your point about the separate links, that didn't happen until September 2001, the last time the links were all together was 31st August 2001, as seen on this clip.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0EJo_N29Tc
 Anyway we'll just have to agree to disagree that you like the separate brands where as I don't, never have and never will, one of the worst things to ever happen on the BBC.

You still don’t seem to be able to answer the question why was it a bad thing them separating into two ?  Why do you want them to merge again?   The viewers and parents certainly don’t want them to.  At the moment your only answer seems to be because you don’t like it and because it was like that until 2002 so why not give a proper answer. Both actually improved from the split as CBBC as able to have better drama stories and more grown up links which the viewers liked and CBeebies was able to concentrate on proper pre school shows and make more of them instead of been limited to just repeats of playdays and the odd new series. I think the likes of Justin Fletcher who was able to bring many of his characters to life and Dick n Dom who had more freedom and the success of the bungalow would certainly disagree with you both only had success because they were able to split the service so both audiences where better served and still are.

By the way you can definitely see a difference there it was a quick hello into the first program with a lot more time with the other shows. Even now you can see how jarring it is going straight from pre school to older kids shows that’s why it works a lot better been under separate brands.

[BBCMeridian]

Fine we'll just have to agree to disagree on the discussion then, oh and on your point about the separate links, that didn't happen until September 2001, the last time the links were all together was 31st August 2001, as seen on this clip.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0EJo_N29Tc
 Anyway we'll just have to agree to disagree that you like the separate brands where as I don't, never have and never will, one of the worst things to ever happen on the BBC.

You still don’t seem to be able to answer the question why was it a bad thing them separating into two ?  Why do you want them to merge again?   The viewers and parents certainly don’t want them to.  At the moment your only answer seems to be because you don’t like it and because it was like that until 2002 so why not give a proper answer. Both actually improved from the split as CBBC as able to have better drama stories and more grown up links which the viewers liked and CBeebies was able to concentrate on proper pre school shows and make more of them instead of been limited to just repeats of playdays and the odd new series. I think the likes of Justin Fletcher who was able to bring many of his characters to life and Dick n Dom who had more freedom and the success of the bungalow would certainly disagree with you both only had success because they were able to split the service so both audiences where better served and still are.

Because I believe an older and younger audience should come together, I said in my previous posts that it's a shame that when younger children reach 6 they stop watching CBeebies and instead go to CBBC where as if it was still merged then they can still watch CBBC and come together to watch it, I also said they can choose not to watch a younger programme when they think they're too old for it and theirs always a tv guide such as RadioTimes to check what time their programme is on or their parents can check when it's on, Now I think of the past successful programmes on the merged CBBC such as Live & Kicking, Blue Peter, Get Your Own Back, Teletubbies, Tweenies, Playdays, Chucklevision and loads more, look what I believe is not going to change and you cannot force me to believe it's better to have separate brands because I believe it isn't, it's like trying to separate the UK, I know I cannot force opinions on other people and I'm sorry if it looks like I am, I just like to think of the past of when CBBC was for all ages of its audience, and it was my favourite era.

[Kunst]

I don't see anything wrong with BBC Three being a kind of channel "in the middle" that also tried to attract slightly older demographics; mostly outside of 9pm anyway.

It's BBC1 and 2 which are supposed to be "in the middle" channels, catering for everyone, yet there is little on there for younger viewers.

Yeah, but I'm not talking about the whole schedule, there's nothing wrong with having one or two shows here and there, including live events (which they've always done, with the first incarnation of the channel).

Let's not be extremely "pedantic"; the channel needs to stay afloat in 2022, having Masterchef Australia is not going to kill the original concept, anyway. Even the likes of ITV2 and E4 cater a slightly older audience than intended, now

And again: Cbeebies and CBBC, regardless of any "pumped up" nostalgia of the past, will never ever merge again

---

Right this has been said how many times CBBC and CBeebies can not be merged. You can’t go from Newsround or a drama like the dumping ground which could be dealing with issues such as puberty or death to in the night garden. 
Same as how BBC news and Parliament can’t be merged. You can’t carry something like a Committee session and cover something like a major news story at the same time.

And it's been said many times that before 2002, there was No CBeebies, I'm sorry but that is the truth and it wouldn't have existed anyway had it not been for Greg Dyke and Nigel Pickard.

It's not fair to blame the people but not the inevitable TV market all around... anyway, not only merging CBBC and Cbeebies would be controversial, I also can't see anything wrong with keeping them separate.
It's not like the silly (for 2022) watershed rules inflected by OFCOM, to show it with an analogy

[Joe]

Can we just drop this boring, circular argument about merging/demerging CBBC/CBeebies?

[Brekkie]

Freeview indisputably is the platform where BBC Three needs a more prominent slot, and with Four closing just swap it to the correct order. The BBC won't need to worry about losing a prominent channel number when they can just put BBC Three on channel 9 when BBC Four closes. However, it's better if it happens sooner rather than later, EPG placement right now for BBC Three is less than desirable.

It doesn't help that local TV were given the option of taking 7 or staying with 8 when BBC3 originally closed.   Now it's back they should be forced back to the one channel so in England (and I think NI) at least one of the numbers can be returned to the BBC.


Guess it'll take a change of government for local TV to be marked as the failure it is but absolutely no justification in channels that provide 10 minutes of token PSB content a day, who were allocated prominant slots on the promise of multiple hours of local content, retaining such high positions. Baffling how anyone can be happy to sit by and let the likes of CBBC and BBC4 close whilst That's TV and so called Local TV continue to make a mockery of local TV. Although I don't think the channels directly get any licence fee funding anymore I suspect the infrastructure is still propped up by it - and I've no doubt that the money spent on it over the last 10 years would have been much better used by the BBC to offer enhanced local content via their online and streaming platforms.

[natashajacobs]

Freeview indisputably is the platform where BBC Three needs a more prominent slot, and with Four closing just swap it to the correct order. The BBC won't need to worry about losing a prominent channel number when they can just put BBC Three on channel 9 when BBC Four closes. However, it's better if it happens sooner rather than later, EPG placement right now for BBC Three is less than desirable.

It doesn't help that local TV were given the option of taking 7 or staying with 8 when BBC3 originally closed.   Now it's back they should be forced back to the one channel so in England (and I think NI) at least one of the numbers can be returned to the BBC.


Guess it'll take a change of government for local TV to be marked as the failure it is but absolutely no justification in channels that provide 10 minutes of token PSB content a day, who were allocated prominant slots on the promise of multiple hours of local content, retaining such high positions.  Baffling how anyone can be happy to sit by and let the likes of CBBC and BBC4 close whilst That's TV and so called Local TV continue to make a mockery of local TV.  Although I don't think the channels directly get any licence fee funding anymore I suspect the infrastructure is still propped up by it - and I've no doubt that the money spent on it over the last 10 years would have been much better used by the BBC to offer enhanced local content via their online and streaming platforms.

Considering here in Manc there’s only 10 minutes of news all day tomorrow plus a looped repeat from 3-6am, pretty shocking even by local TV standards

[Rob]

Can we just drop this boring, circular argument about merging/demerging CBBC/CBeebies?

Absolutely, this is going absolutely nowhere, so let's all stop this line of discussion.

[tellyblues]

It's BBC1 and 2 which are supposed to be "in the middle" channels, catering for everyone, yet there is little on there for younger viewers.

Yeah, but I'm not talking about the whole schedule, there's nothing wrong with having one or two shows here and there, including live events (which they've always done, with the first incarnation of the channel).

Let's not be extremely "pedantic"; the channel needs to stay afloat in 2022, having Masterchef Australia is not going to kill the original concept, anyway. Even the likes of ITV2 and E4 cater a slightly older audience than intended, now

And again: Cbeebies and CBBC, regardless of any "pumped up" nostalgia of the past, will never ever merge again

I'm not suggesting they should ? None of what I think is driven by nostalgia - I won't be jumping up and down like mad if a CBBC block returned to BBC1 or 2, but it is (should be) imperative that viewers of all ages are catered for on these channels. What is mustered up at present is laughable.

Masterchef Australia and the African Nations Cup aren't just one or two shows. Both aired for a prolonged period compared to ordinary programming. Yes, a great way of filling the schedules and in Masterchef's case remarkable since the series was from 2018. Before BARB stopped reporting figures for individual channels, every edition of Masterchef was right up there in BBC3's most popular shows but if you happened to venture further down the list you would see that other shows on the channel were pulling in pathetic amounts. What's the betting that when a report on BBC3's performance comes out it focuses on selective figures and one or two unrepresentative highlights from the channel to somehow prove that it has found its intended audience instead of the majority of original commissions which have failed?

The mistake made with all of these offshoot channels is that you need to produce more content to make them viable but they generally end up as full of repeats that die a death in the end, as unless you have an enormous budget most of what is shown will be old or cheap content that people don't want to watch. Another problem is that there may be a format that could play on BBC1 or 2 but is "saved" for BBC3 or BBC Scotland etc so that these channels have new content and it's difficult to make the switch thereafter because it's seen as too much of a jump and there is a more bankable though still poorly performing show on BBC1 which stops it, for example. In any case, you would get people turning their noses up at something because of wrongly presuming that a channel is for them because nothing remotely edgy or youth-orientated has been shown there for years. What's the worst that could happen - them watching another channel?

[NancerOnTheLIVEForum]

You still don’t seem to be able to answer the question why was it a bad thing them separating into two ?  Why do you want them to merge again?   The viewers and parents certainly don’t want them to.  At the moment your only answer seems to be because you don’t like it and because it was like that until 2002 so why not give a proper answer. Both actually improved from the split as CBBC as able to have better drama stories and more grown up links which the viewers liked and CBeebies was able to concentrate on proper pre school shows and make more of them instead of been limited to just repeats of playdays and the odd new series. I think the likes of Justin Fletcher who was able to bring many of his characters to life and Dick n Dom who had more freedom and the success of the bungalow would certainly disagree with you both only had success because they were able to split the service so both audiences where better served and still are.

Because I believe an older and younger audience should come together, I said in my previous posts that it's a shame that when younger children reach 6 they stop watching CBeebies and instead go to CBBC where as if it was still merged then they can still watch CBBC and come together to watch it, I also said they can choose not to watch a younger programme when they think they're too old for it and theirs always a tv guide such as RadioTimes to check what time their programme is on or their parents can check when it's on, Now I think of the past successful programmes on the merged CBBC such as Live & Kicking, Blue Peter, Get Your Own Back, Teletubbies, Tweenies, Playdays, Chucklevision and loads more, look what I believe is not going to change and you cannot force me to believe it's better to have separate brands because I believe it isn't, it's like trying to separate the UK, I know I cannot force opinions on other people and I'm sorry if it looks like I am, I just like to think of the past of when CBBC was for all ages of its audience, and it was my favourite era.

I know we said we'd stop but can I please ask a question?

Why do you actually care if they're merged or not? Do you watch CBBC or CBeebies at all?

[Brekkie]

Ask him privately. Rob's asked for that particular conversation to stop twice now.

[telebox2001]

This is getting really bloody boring. Cases have been made for, and against. I know there's not a lot of logic in where the BBC make cuts but this particular one isn't gonna happen.

I am far more concerned that the national public broadcaster's children's programmes are being dropped from linear. I'm even more concerned they've bought BBC Three back to linear only to axe Four instead. And I'm also concerned at where the BBC is making cuts when expensive but little-used services are not being touched, often to placate political masters.

[natashajacobs]

This is getting really bloody boring.  Cases have been made for, and against.  I know there's not a lot of logic in where the BBC make cuts but this particular one isn't gonna happen.

I am far more concerned that the national public broadcaster's children's programmes are being dropped from linear.  I'm even more concerned they've bought BBC Three back to linear only to axe Four instead.  And I'm also concerned at where the BBC is making cuts when expensive but little-used services are not being touched, often to placate political masters.

I think you’ve hit the nail on the head

[XIII]

Some of the suggestions in regards to iPlayer are quite frankly ludicrous . Making it and Sounds subscription only and having an extremely limited free version of either would never happen simply you'd risk making it less competitive not only with the SVODs but also ITVX, All4 and My5.

We cannot turn back the clock and have a linear only BBC, that ship has long sailed.

[CATV]

I disagree a super charged BBC SVODs merged with BBC BritBox content and UKTV Play at the right price could work. Could even launch globally.

I think iPlayer should be a catch up service up to 30 days. It should only be available through the TV.

The app and website would be replaced with the new service.