BBC Four & CBBC to close

[telebox2001]

I'm going to phrase this carefully bearing in mind what Rob has said, but I do wonder if there is an element of the BBC playing politics here in announcing this so far ahead of time?

By the time it takes effect we'll have had a General Election, so I wonder if there is an element of announcing the worst case scenario in the hope that opposition parties will pick it up as an election issue?

A repeat of the 6 Music closure U Turn in the offing?

I don’t think this is the case at all. There is a cost of living crisis - no party is going into the next election pledging to increase the license fee, which is what this would need. I seriously think people here are massively overestimating the attachment that viewers have to these things.

I agree broadly with this.  Especially because post-Corona, traditional party lines have just gone straight out of the window. (Example: Conservatives' various financial measures dished out in Spring 2020, not a traditionally blue thing to do.)

So I don't think it's a given Labour or indeed anyone will contest the next General Election on a "Save the BBC" platform.  There's plenty of reds and blues who want reform, just as they are want it protecting.  Like Brexit, it's not a case of "Tories = X, Labour = Y."  It's a cross party issue and neither side has a single position.

And I think as the world finds its feet post-Corona and hopefully peace in Ukraine, there will simply be other tickets on which the next election will be campaigned.

[Brekkie]

I'm going to phrase this carefully bearing in mind what Rob has said, but I do wonder if there is an element of the BBC playing politics here in announcing this so far ahead of time?

By the time it takes effect we'll have had a General Election, so I wonder if there is an element of announcing the worst case scenario in the hope that opposition parties will pick it up as an election issue?

A repeat of the 6 Music closure U Turn in the offing?

Absolutely - closing CBBC triggers an audience which is now too old for CBBC but has fond memories of the channel, but may widely be considered to be the Netflix generation now.   It's almost the same tactic as 6Music - but with the real threat.

And it is political but also a political hot potato.   The licence fee is just one of those issues that never quite goes away and is never really dealt with because there isn't really a better solution.   I don't really recall how it was dealt with by the Tories of the 80s and 90s but of course the TV landscape was very different back then.   The BBC's digital growth in the late 90s and early 00s was probably more coincidental than down to Labour, but there is no doubt that it's wings have been clipped in the last decade - but they also needed clipping to a certain extent too - just not ripped off completely.

[Mateus Honrado]

While I understand why this is happening, I'm just not happy with the decision to move BBC Four, CBBC and BBC Radio 4 Extra online only.

[telebox2001]

I'm going to phrase this carefully bearing in mind what Rob has said, but I do wonder if there is an element of the BBC playing politics here in announcing this so far ahead of time?

By the time it takes effect we'll have had a General Election, so I wonder if there is an element of announcing the worst case scenario in the hope that opposition parties will pick it up as an election issue?

A repeat of the 6 Music closure U Turn in the offing?

Absolutely - closing CBBC triggers an audience which is now too old for CBBC but has fond memories of the channel, but may widely be considered to be the Netflix generation now.   It's almost the same tactic as 6Music - but with the real threat.

And it is political but also a political hot potato.   The licence fee is just one of those issues that never quite goes away and is never really dealt with because there isn't really a better solution.   I don't really recall how it was dealt with by the Tories of the 80s and 90s but of course the TV landscape was very different back then.   The BBC's digital growth in the late 90s and early 00s was probably more coincidental than down to Labour, but there is no doubt that it's wings have been clipped in the last decade - but they also needed clipping to a certain extent too - just not ripped off completely.

The Peacock Committee was the main thing with the BBC during the Thatcher ministries.  This was initially to find a new way to fund the BBC going forward.  Thatcher in her autobiography discusses the possibility of subscription in an effort to - her words - "make [the Corporation] more cost-conscious & business-like."  Advertising was seriously entertained.

As we now know, none of that got picked up.  However it also suggested that ITV franchises should be a sealed-bid-tender cash auction when the 1991 round took place.  And the rest, as they say...

[Kunst]

Sorry if I sound harsh, but the world in general is an ever more complicated place, and TV too .

In the light of this, and especially given some challenges the world is currently facing too -including a stronger desire to consume TV with other non-traditional means, which are more "comfortable"), you can't really blame the BBC for giving priorities to certain things

Shutting down redundant sectors, is the least they can do.
I think some people (I don't want to sound harsh, but sorry) need to remove rose tinted glasses, absolutely; if there isn't a proper audience for CBBC and BBC Four (etc.), or its audience can be moved elsewhere, what do you expect the BBC to do? Waste money?

I don't understand "Sunday's complainers" either (like on ehm... DigitalSpy and the likes!); and I understand many of an attachment on traditional linear TV, most people have grown up with that, I was born in the 90s anyway! But TV is consumed much differently now...

I think CBBC should/could have a place on Two (not One), on weekday afternoons/Saturday mornings, but I'm also humble, these are considerations which the BBC has to do themselves; it depends on how things will look in 2025...

[johnnyboy]

I think it's difficult for forum members born after 1990 to understand just how exciting the launch of digital TV was.

When the Beeb launched its extra channels, it felt like the right time. News 24, Choice, Knowledge, Parliament. Of course, a few million people had satellite and cable but the vast majority didn't so multi-channel TV was something of the future, something like what they had in America.

The Beeb's additional channels were seen, IIRC, as crucial for persuading people to switch from analogue to digital as well.

From the perspective of 2022, there does seem to be over-stretch - totally get that. But from the perspective of 1998, it was a brave new world and the new niche BBC channels, particularly BBC4, would have the freedom to be truly public sector broadcasting while BBC1 and BBC2 had to dip their toes in PSB and populism.

[Newshound47]

BBC Four has higher ratings than BBC3. It’s audience base is still a linear viewing group where many will never switch to the non linear viewing habits of younger people. I know plenty of people who simply miss a programme if it clashes with something else they like rather than record or seek a catch-up.

[Kunst]

BBC Four has higher ratings than BBC3. It’s audience base is still a linear viewing group where many will never switch to the non linear viewing habits of younger people. I know plenty of people who simply miss a programme if it clashes with something else they like rather than record or seek a catch-up.

But much less money is spent on Four than Three... leaving Three as a linear channel ensures that newer content BBC has actually spent money on is watched by many people (not just younger people)

BBC Four's audience can be easily moved to Two, in addition to iPlayer.

---

I think it's difficult for forum members born after 1990 to understand just how exciting the launch of digital TV was.

When the Beeb launched its extra channels, it felt like the right time. News 24, Choice, Knowledge, Parliament. Of course, a few million people had satellite and cable but the vast majority didn't so multi-channel TV was something of the future, something like what they had in America.

The Beeb's additional channels were seen, IIRC, as crucial for persuading people to switch from analogue to digital as well.

From the perspective of 2022, there does seem to be over-stretch - totally get that. But from the perspective of 1998, it was a brave new world and the new niche BBC channels, particularly BBC4, would have the freedom to be truly public sector broadcasting while BBC1 and BBC2 had to dip their toes in PSB and populism.

Of course, that was a definitely a thing to do in 1998 or around that time, a very exciting and very needed change
Of course, now it feels a bit redundant, but nevertheless, the likes of Cbeebies still work

[Brekkie]

Absolutely - closing CBBC triggers an audience which is now too old for CBBC but has fond memories of the channel, but may widely be considered to be the Netflix generation now.   It's almost the same tactic as 6Music - but with the real threat.

And it is political but also a political hot potato.   The licence fee is just one of those issues that never quite goes away and is never really dealt with because there isn't really a better solution.   I don't really recall how it was dealt with by the Tories of the 80s and 90s but of course the TV landscape was very different back then.   The BBC's digital growth in the late 90s and early 00s was probably more coincidental than down to Labour, but there is no doubt that it's wings have been clipped in the last decade - but they also needed clipping to a certain extent too - just not ripped off completely.

The Peacock Committee was the main thing with the BBC during the Thatcher ministries.  This was initially to find a new way to fund the BBC going forward.  Thatcher in her autobiography discusses the possibility of subscription in an effort to - her words - "make [the Corporation] more cost-conscious & business-like."  Advertising was seriously entertained.

As we now know, none of that got picked up.  However it also suggested that ITV franchises should be a sealed-bid-tender cash auction when the 1991 round took place.  And the rest, as they say...

The 80s was probably the opportunity missed for advertising on the BBC - competition for ITV then would have been seen as a good thing considering they had a virtual monopoly on TV advertising, but by the time the 90s came along and certainly the noughties the impact on competitors was the reason not to do it.

Arguably the biggest saviour of the BBC was limiting their commercial rivals to just one network for so long.   Had a genuine commercial rival to ITV been permitted in the 60s or 70s, perhaps rather than launching BBC2, then there would have been more plurality in TV and perhaps the BBC thrived as a slightly smaller player in the market rather than grown into the dominant one.

Rewriting history doesn't solve the current conundrum though.   The subscription or commercial argument is often bought up and of course the BBC have a commercial operation in UKTV, but when closures are suggested there is never much talk of moving them from licence fee services to UKTV services.   The only move in that direction we've seen really was when EastEnders same night repeats moved to W from BBC3 following it's closure, but that didn't last long.

[tellyblues]

But much less money is spent on Four than Three... leaving Three as a linear channel ensures that newer content BBC has actually spent money on is watched by many people (not just younger people)

Which completely misses the point of BBC3. African Nations Cup or Masterchef Australia can appeal to 16-34 year olds but the bulk of viewers will be from outwith the target demographic. The vast majority of shows commissioned for BBC3 will hardly get any viewers because the BBC are not in tune with what viewers want, much like CBBC.

[Newshound47]

But much less money is spent on Four than Three... leaving Three as a linear channel ensures that newer content BBC has actually spent money on is watched by many people (not just younger people)

Which completely misses the point of BBC3. African Nations Cup or Masterchef Australia can appeal to 16-34 year olds but the bulk of viewers will be from outwith the target demographic. The vast majority of shows commissioned for BBC3 will hardly get any viewers because the BBC are not in tune with what viewers want, much like CBBC.

I think the African Cup of Nations probably does lean younger than other football coverage but Masterchef Australia is a bit odd for BBc3 when the Uk version has a older viewing demographic.

[natashajacobs]

But much less money is spent on Four than Three... leaving Three as a linear channel ensures that newer content BBC has actually spent money on is watched by many people (not just younger people)

Which completely misses the point of BBC3. African Nations Cup or Masterchef Australia can appeal to 16-34 year olds but the bulk of viewers will be from outwith the target demographic. The vast majority of shows commissioned for BBC3 will hardly get any viewers because the BBC are not in tune with what viewers want, much like CBBC.

It can’t be said that they haven’t tried. CBBC a few years ago brought in quite a few YouTubers as presenters on the HQ , BP, Mash Up, and other shows to try and bring in their audiences. I just think the offering by the BBC (in fact all PSB offerings) is too different from what is offered by social media that there was no way they could ever really compete

---

And on BBC3, they’ve had quite a few successes with Drag Race, Normal People and the like. The linear channel is just too far down and the beeb should have fought harder for a better slot

[Kunst]

I don't see anything wrong with BBC Three being a kind of channel "in the middle" that also tried to attract slightly older demographics; mostly outside of 9pm anyway.

It works much better in this respect than BBC Four

---

And then, it makes a much better use than having CBBC until 9pm and then...dead airtime

[Brekkie]

And on BBC3, they’ve had quite a few successes with Drag Race, Normal People and the like. The linear channel is just too far down and the beeb should have fought harder for a better slot

Well of course closing BBC4 will solve that problem, if they're not able to do so beforehand.

[Kunst]

Speaking of which, the EPG position for BBC Three on most platforms is so extremely messy!

They should be giving priority to BBC Three and rejiggle the whole thing, ASAP, definitely earlier than 2025