BBC Four & CBBC to close

[London Lite]

I've already been asked to sign a "Save BBC Four petition" but I won't sign it.

BBC Four has stopped producing original output and the only time I see people discussing the channel is when an archive TOTP is on. Unlike BBC Three which really had to come back to bring down the age of viewers using PSB content, TOTP and the other archive shows would find a better home on iPlayer.

CBBC is a difficult one, their demo is the most tech savvy audience of all BBC linear services, but I'd agree that a linear slot on BBC Two when it's full of padding would be a better use of airtime than what BBC Two is currently showing outside of Politics Live. It also ensure Newsround would still have a linear slot.

[natashajacobs]

World Service is on for four or so hours, I mean the whole night. I agree it is very relevant to the PSB remit with what it does. But, in my opinion, this doesn’t mean it should be immune from cuts. Someone else has stated that some cuts on live programming on R4 have been made, I think this is a good thing, it shouldn’t be allowed to go on as before when every other service including Local news and radio is cutting back, another very PSB service. And, if we are to believe what we have heard today, Bitesize will also be cut back a bit too. Also PSB.

What is the whole night? Starting before midnight? A lot of the stuff that airs in those slots is podcast friendly and is the type of thing that drives BBC Sounds.

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The only LW-only programme I can think of is the Daily Service
Yesterday in Parliament is essentially Today in Parliament just rebadged
Test Match Special, the BBC likely have the rights for it anyways
The Shipping Forecast?
I can't see how cutting these will help at all

I don't see what they mean when they say they won't produce "LW-only content"

If they put back the CBeebies/CBBC blocks on One and Two, it would be like when I was younger..
In The Night Garden at around 10am anyone?

Not even suggesting major cuts, I don’t think it should be immune from even small cuts the way it seems to be. A good start would be to simulcast World Service overnight

Sounds a bit too close to "I don't use it, close it" for my liking

Long wave is being switched off entirely it seems.

[font='Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]My opinions don’t have to be ‘to your liking’ hun, that’s the whole point of the forum to respectfully disagree. I personally find R4 very ‘classist’ but I do get that’s the whole point of the BBC, to offer something for everyone. It is popular but doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be cut like everything else, that’s all [/font]

[HEW2343]

From Tim Davie's Speech:
"When it comes to network TV, we will reduce the volume of hours we commission a year by around 200. We’ll still offer thousands of originated hours and a very broad range, but fewer hours will mean we are not constantly thinning programme budgets.

We will focus our money where we are distinctive and more uniquely BBC. We will make tough choices about titles which may be performing on linear but are not doing enough to drive viewers to on-demand. A number of them will be cancelled this year."

[Col87]

From Tim Davie's Speech:
"When it comes to network TV, we will reduce the volume of hours we commission a year by around 200. We’ll still offer thousands of originated hours and a very broad range, but fewer hours will mean we are not constantly thinning programme budgets.

We will focus our money where we are distinctive and more uniquely BBC. We will make tough choices about titles which may be performing on linear but are not doing enough to drive viewers to on-demand. A number of them will be cancelled this year."

It sounds like he’s killing the BBC from the inside here and a lot of PSB stuff could be getting axed. It don’t sound good for sport or live events then as that exactly what will do well on linear but not catch up. I wonder for the future of the BBC here.

[telebox2001]

From Tim Davie's Speech:
"When it comes to network TV, we will reduce the volume of hours we commission a year by around 200. We’ll still offer thousands of originated hours and a very broad range, but fewer hours will mean we are not constantly thinning programme budgets.

We will focus our money where we are distinctive and more uniquely BBC. We will make tough choices about titles which may be performing on linear but are not doing enough to drive viewers to on-demand. A number of them will be cancelled this year."

It sounds like he’s killing the BBC from the inside here and a lot of PSB stuff could be getting axed. It don’t sound good for sport or live events then as that exactly what will do well on linear but not catch up. I wonder for the future of the BBC here.

Agree.  There is still a market for Event Television, which brings the BBC enormous ratings; indeed an Event Television programme on BBC One is currently the best rated programme of the year so far.

I get that the BBC needs to make iPlayer happen but there will always be a market for the collective experience where everybody watches together.  Whether that's Strictly, a major series finale, Eurovision, the big game, television is still a major vehicle for bringing people together - especially so in the last two years.

Davie is being very careless.

[XIII]

I'm sure sport and live events will be play a part, things like Eurovision, sport and big one-off events like the Jubilee are things that thrive on linear. Suggesting those will be axed by the BBC is frankly daft.

[Inspector Sands]

The only LW-only programme I can think of is the Daily Service
Yesterday in Parliament is essentially Today in Parliament just rebadged
Test Match Special, the BBC likely have the rights for it anyways
The Shipping Forecast?
I can't see how cutting these will help at all

I don't see what they mean when they say they won't produce "LW-only content"

The LW only programmes I think are Yesterday in Parliament, Daily Service and the daytime Shipping Forecasts. Test Match Special is also put out on LW, but that's simulcast with 5 Live Sports Extra. Apart from the Shipping Forecast I imagine both YiP and Daily Service will continue on their existing DAB sub channel unless they're just put on the main Radio 4. I imagine The Shipping Forecast will go if there's no LW to broadcast it on (it's always been on the BBC's LW frequencies even before Radio 4 was), but it sounds like that's being discussed with the appropriate government agency. Certainly it's not as essential to shipping as it once was 

It will save money, well turning off the three big LW transmitters will save a lot of money. Removing the content from it will encourage the listeners to go to DAB/online for the programmes in the lead up to it being switched off. The other use for LW - for electricity switching, is due to end soon.


but we're not meant to be talking about radio here.....

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To be honest, I am quite surprised at how lightly Radio (and not just local) has been cut. 

It's because it's the cheaper medium so there's less to cut.  For example BBC One costs £900 million a year, if they cut 10% of it's budget that's is the equivalent of Radios 1, 1 Xtra, Radio 3 and 6 Music .... so what's the better to cut?


That said it is their cheapest radio station, and one of the most popular digital-only stations that's getting the axe - Radio 4 Extra costs a bargain £3 million a year

[telebox2001]

I mean there's scope to cut radio. With 5Live coming off AM, is there scope to merge it with the locals? Opts for breakfast, drive and football commentary with a national sustaining service at other times?

Edit: Is that electrical switching thing on 198 still A Thing? I would have thought that would have been superceded by smart meters now?

[Rex]

Whilst BBC Four is one of my most regularly watched channels, I can see the argument that it could be merged with BBC 2 especially with the cuts in recent years, however I think the possibility of the CBBC channel being cut is a bigger issue.

CBBC is probably the last great outputs of British children's productions. Yes, CiTV exists but is a shadow of its former self. Moving it to solely online is a big risk and whilst the press release says Blue Peter and Newsround would still continue, it does make you wonder for how long? It would be a shame for long running institutions like that to get axed purely due to a short sighted decision of basically cutting out a whole generation of public.

If anything has to be cut, surely BBC Alba and BBC Scotland are more niche than something like CBBC?

CBBC would require a linear outlet on either BBC One or Two if it ends up being closed in 2025, and with a heavy marketing campaign to inform people of it too. With how neutered BBC Two daytime is, dedicating it to a CBBC block at the peak of after school whilst still maintaining the likes of Newsround and Blue Peter would rationalise and streamline the BBC Two schedule. That way, BBC Two effectively serves the remits of both BBC Four and CBBC as a streamlined channel. 

It's still devastating to cut off the CBBC channel, but it's been in a massive decline for a while - it only reaches 14% of its target audience compared to 27% back in 2015, and it has a rich content library on iPlayer which the BBC will aim to curate too. Getting 75% of the audience on iPlayer in general compared to less than 50% also mitigates the loss of both BBC Four and CBBC further down the line. I can definitely see the logic in trying to build on iPlayer's audience whilst cutting down on the number of linear channels they have, and honestly, it's been going that way for a long while now.

Closing BBC Four isn't a surprise anyway. It was the one channel noted by insiders to not even survive another round of cuts which have now been announced, and its programming has been completely neutered into something that can be better served by iPlayer. It's been dead from the moment the BBC cut commissioning power for it, and the archive channel plans were a stopgap to prevent the inevitable. 

As for BBC Three and CBeebies? Those channels are safe since CBeebies provides an incredible entry into the BBC for younger viewers and parents, and BBC Three is clearly a long term prospect into retaining the youth audience which has been hard for the BBC to attract. Oh, and they just spent substantial funds relaunching it.

[ACTV]

Even CITV compartmentalised it back in the analogue days - preschool programmes were originally at lunchtime after schools and later This Morning.

In 1993 they moved to 3:30 to be part of the main CITV block but even though Gaz Top still did continuity, it had its own house style separate from main CITV.  (Didn't they have a rabbit who counted on an Abacus as a mascot?)

That was actually a few months after the out-of-vision continuity service with Steve Ryde began (that had started in February and the preschool shift happened in September).

The presentation and idents for the first twenty minutes was different to the rest of the strand however, and there were four mascots: Abacat (who was a cat who counted on an Abacus, is that the one you remember?), Cheesy, Mr. Clockface and Ruskman, who all remained until Stephen & Danielle came along in 1998.

It was part of a substantial revamp of ITV daytime in Autumn 1993. Families was axed, the preschool programmes were merged into CITV, This Morning gained an extra 10 minutes as a result (the other ten minutes given to regional news) & Supermarket Sweep made it's debut at 9:25.

[bkman1990]

There's a couple of things that I would like to say about BBC Four. I think it is a wonderful channel. I had it for 10 years in my house so far. The range & breadth of programmes that have been shown on the channel has been amazing.

As I live in Ireland; I have experienced reading other people's assessments of the channel online. I am a member of boards.ie in Ireland. I have been a member of a thread formally called The Beebrock Thread, now called BBC Four and Sky Arts Thread which is located in it's Television forum.

When BBC Four has been talked about in this thread on boards.ie; I suppose you could say that it has acquired a cult following among it's posters in the thread. I have not read their own responses yet about BBC Four as of yet. But I think they could be hit with high amounts of disappointment as the channel has been a big favourite among this cohort of posters for a very long time.

I am very disappointed with this proposal that BBC Four will be closing in the near future once Ofcom give it full approval. I think it's big theme nights covering both TV Shows and movies have been a big draw for the channel over the years. I will be gutted to see BBC Four go off the air in the next few years if this proposal came through. I will miss it a lot.

[Markymark]

I mean there's scope to cut radio.  With 5Live coming off AM, is there scope to merge it with the locals?  Opts for breakfast, drive and football commentary with a national sustaining service at other times?

Edit: Is that electrical switching thing on 198 still A Thing?  I would have thought that would have been superceded by smart meters now?

It's still a thing. My mother's house still has a Teleswitch, the power company keep nagging her to install a smart meter, when I attempt to make a booking I'm told there are 'no resources currently available'. Yet another UK omnishambles. Just saying.

[BBCMeridian]

...Consolidating the news channel and BBC World News (though preserving the ability for the UK to opt out) is hardly a surprise...

Cue weekly "BBC pays journalists and technicians MILLIONS to SIT AROUND DOING NOTHING WAITING FOR BREAKING NEWS" stories. To have the true ability to opt out any time, you still need a presenter, producer, entire gallery and studio crew, makeup artists, etc etc etc - as well as a maintained, functioning, turned on studio - on standby. You may as well utilise those resources to, err, broadcast a separate channel. Unless there will be UK focused opt outs at specific, regular times of the day - which still requires scheduled crews, talent and studios to be paid for, and reduces you ability to cover the news outside of those scheduled hours. 

...We watch lots of CBBC programmes - from Horrible Histories to Deadly 60 - but back-to-back on demand rather than on a curated channel. It's just the way the world works now and how media is consumed... 

How did you initially discover these shows, though? Through a trailer or watching them on linear TV to begin with? How would that happen if there is no "shop window" to tell you these shows exist when you're just starting to transition between CBeebies and CBBC content? 

To be honest, it would be hard, especially for me to imagine CBeebies without CBBC (on TV). If CBBC was merged with CBeebies, it would personally make more sense.

In what way does it make sense that at 4pm a 13 year old is forced to watch In The Night Garden or a 1 year old is forced to watch Blue Peter? 

...The changes to BBC News seem rational and will finally give it some certainty rather than the awkward kind-of-merging-but-trying-to-pretend-it-isn’t style they’ve been doing. I think it will be a better service for UK viewers...

You're a producer on this new super merged News Channel. On the same day as a mass elementary school shooting in the US, there is an unprecedented storm killing hundreds in India and the Prime Minister is ousted from his seat by his MPs after Partygate. Which story do you fill the next 3 hours with? How does that benefit both UK and international audiences? 

...this same [squeezing value for money] thought process needs to be made for every local radio station, every podcast, and anything that isn’t a core service. And if this sounds harsh - it’s what nearly every private company has to do. I’m really pleased that the person at the top seems to have this mindset too.

The BBC is essentially the only Public Service Broadcaster left in the UK. It should be doing things which get criticised for not being value for money. The value of their services shouldn't only be judged on how much audience it gets or how expensive it was, but on what cultural contribution it makes to society and how unique it is in the broadcasting landscape, balanced of course with the cost and reach. 

...if anything has to be cut, surely BBC Alba and BBC Scotland are more niche than something like CBBC?

Yes. But, as above, niche Is what the BBC as the last true PSB on the UK *should* be doing.

It has a very loyal listener base who would make the campaign to save 6 music seem small if major cuts were proposed.

Not even suggesting major cuts, I don’t think it should be immune from even small cuts the way it seems to be. A good start would be to simulcast World Service overnight

The World Service is already simulcast on R4 overnight. And I believe R4 is the most PSB thing the BBC does. This is a TV forum so I'll be brief, but can you tell me any other UK radio station which had a daily soap opera, or dramas, or comedy shows? What, do you think, is the reason for that?

You don't seem to know about history of the BBC as well, before 2002, there was only CBBC, merged and no CBeebies, and it probably would've stayed that way had it not been for Greg Dyke and Nigel Pickard.

I tell you what let’s go even further back and Just dump everything on one BBC TV channel shall we. We will go back to an hour at 4 o clock for kids programs then certain posters might be happy then.  

Merging CBBC and CBeebies is a big no. Do you really expect to go back to the days of In the night garden followed by Blue Peter it don’t work. Even before they split in 2002 they were had split links for the pre school shows.  Same with merging Three and Four together a 1993 repeat of top of the pops followed be live in the flesh simply wouldn’t work.

Erm all the links were presented in the same style before the split in 2002, like for example these clips.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7jCAt_wMrk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9VM0mmwsd4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAD7Gewp4eA

[RobinBlamires]

So the solution here appears to be “Bring back my childhood”.

Elements of the past can work, though that sort of approach is at best unhealthy.

[i.h]

I can't believe how reckless the BBC have been in their decision making here.  Taking away CBBC is a huge abandonment of their PSB remit, and unless there will be a linear shop window in the post-school slot (going full circle I know) it will, eventually, kill it off.

- First off you're now required to buy either a new television or expensive outboard equipment in order to access the iPlayer in order continue to recieve children's television from the BBC,.

- Secondly, you now also require a fast broadband connection.

These are two huge financial commitments for the those on the very lowest incomes and very poorest families who despite paying a TV license, will now need to make extra investment to watch children's television.

Atop this, what about all the old dears that have no Internet connection or smart TV?  The same old dears who are expected to babysit and entertain their grandkids during school holidays - something they now won't be able to do because they won't have broadband or suitable equipment.  I'm sure I'm not the only one with memories of being dispatched to Grandad's and plonked in front of Playdays of a school holiday.

We have to ask should the BBC be for the many or for the few?  Case in point - just 2m listen to R3 according to last week's RAJAR but Classic FM draws over 5m.  Yet R3 is always immune from cuts despite eating up a huge amount of scarce spectrum resource.  I'm not sure if it gets something back for the overnight show they produce for the EBU, but it's probably a drop in the ocean.

But instead the BBC attacks something used by the many.

The whole thing is just outrageous to be honest, and will alienate the very people who rely on the BBC the most.

While I’m not a fan of the decisions made yesterday, it’s important to avoid the histrionics.

Smart TVs have been the norm for years, and there’s no shortage of cheap streaming devices that can do iPlayer if that’s not already built into a device they already have. Even my techno-illiterate grandad had a big 4K TV that could support it, as did his Freesat box, though they did not have an internet connection (a problem that will disappear in time as landline phones move to VoIP)

The internet connection doesn’t need to be fast at all, and the standard broadband speeds available today are far more than what would be required.

And remember, this isn’t happening tomorrow, it’s in several years time (if it happens at all) - the number of people without internet will be even smaller than it is now.