BBC Four & CBBC to close

[Brekkie]

Wonder why they don't put CBBC on during BBC2's daytime hours? Or keep CBBC as a channel and start BBC2 at 7pm?

Live sport mainly, although thanks to the cuts there it's only really Wimbledon, snooker and the Olympics, plus a couple of other events (a week of bowls) which interupt it.   I suspect though CBBC will get something like a 4-6pm slot on BBC2 on weekdays and probably weekend mornings.  

I think it’s a big mistake losing CBBC. To maintain the longevity of viewers sticking with the BBC, it has to serve them at all age groups. Dropping its linear channel is going to open it up to more competition from rivals and therefore lose any potential future BBC viewership.
It was why I was so dead against closing BBC Three to lose the young adult audience. But as that’s come back they’ve done something far worse and removing the linear option for older children.
A big mistake if you ask me.

Completely agree - they're pretty much saying goodbye to viewers once they start school with this move and a danger they never come back as they get older - but then the BBC of the 2040s is probably going to be quite different.

What annoys me though is this isn't a "Digital First" strategy - it's a "cuts first" strategy and then trying to justify it with talk of "going digital", something which has been a buzzphrase for 25 years now.   There are some things that can absolutely be done better through a digital strategy than relying on linear channels but many of them have fallen by the wayside over the last decade or so - noteably BBC Democracy Live, which was a much better way of covering live parliamentary discussion than one linear channel, and things like the smart TV/red button apps for BBC News and BBC Sport, which made short form content easily accessible via the TV screen, but they've been lost even though much of that content is still produced for the website, mobile app and social media.

Apparently CBBC may still operate a "live channel" schedule once it goes online, which doesn't really suggest a true "digital first" approach.  BBC4 in it's archive guise doesn't really sit well there too - suspect it'll just continue mainly as an option to broadcast live proms etc, but a pop-up iPlayer channel can do that instead.

[AndrewP]

The only LW-only programme I can think of is the Daily Service
Yesterday in Parliament is essentially Today in Parliament just rebadged
Test Match Special, the BBC likely have the rights for it anyways
The Shipping Forecast?
I can't see how cutting these will help at all

I don't see what they mean when they say they won't produce "LW-only content"

If they put back the CBeebies/CBBC blocks on One and Two, it would be like when I was younger..
If I remember correctly on BBC Two it was CBeebies 6-7, 9-10 and CBBC 7-9 and I think up to 11 on the weekends and BBC One CBBC 3-5:30
In The Night Garden at around 10am anyone?

Not even suggesting major cuts, I don’t think it should be immune from even small cuts the way it seems to be. A good start would be to simulcast World Service overnight

Sounds a bit too close to "I don't use it, close it" for my liking

Afaik radio 5 is super cheap and radio 4 has over 4x the budget so if anything they would start to cull some of the content on radio 4. Indeed I wonder if they will start to use some of the sounds podcasts to fill airtime on both stations

Radio 4 already has trimmed down podcasts filling up airtime

[Andrew]

I think it’s a big mistake losing CBBC. To maintain the longevity of viewers sticking with the BBC, it has to serve them at all age groups. Dropping its linear channel is going to open it up to more competition from rivals and therefore lose any potential future BBC viewership.
It was why I was so dead against closing BBC Three to lose the young adult audience. But as that’s come back they’ve done something far worse and removing the linear option for older children.
A big mistake if you ask me.

I suppose you’d have to get into the head of a child of today, do they still grab the remote and scroll through the childrens section on the EPG and hence the BBC would lose out if they weren’t there, or do they just go online and watch what they want when they want?

[Newshound47]

World Service is on for four or so hours, I mean the whole night. I agree it is very relevant to the PSB remit with what it does. But, in my opinion, this doesn’t mean it should be immune from cuts. Someone else has stated that some cuts on live programming on R4 have been made, I think this is a good thing, it shouldn’t be allowed to go on as before when every other service including Local news and radio is cutting back, another very PSB service. And, if we are to believe what we have heard today, Bitesize will also be cut back a bit too. Also PSB.

What is the whole night? Starting before midnight? A lot of the stuff that airs in those slots is podcast friendly and is the type of thing that drives BBC Sounds.

---

The only LW-only programme I can think of is the Daily Service
Yesterday in Parliament is essentially Today in Parliament just rebadged
Test Match Special, the BBC likely have the rights for it anyways
The Shipping Forecast?
I can't see how cutting these will help at all

I don't see what they mean when they say they won't produce "LW-only content"

If they put back the CBeebies/CBBC blocks on One and Two, it would be like when I was younger..
In The Night Garden at around 10am anyone?

Not even suggesting major cuts, I don’t think it should be immune from even small cuts the way it seems to be. A good start would be to simulcast World Service overnight

Sounds a bit too close to "I don't use it, close it" for my liking

Long wave is being switched off entirely it seems.

[BBCMeridian]

...Consolidating the news channel and BBC World News (though preserving the ability for the UK to opt out) is hardly a surprise...

Cue weekly "BBC pays journalists and technicians MILLIONS to SIT AROUND DOING NOTHING WAITING FOR BREAKING NEWS" stories. To have the true ability to opt out any time, you still need a presenter, producer, entire gallery and studio crew, makeup artists, etc etc etc - as well as a maintained, functioning, turned on studio - on standby. You may as well utilise those resources to, err, broadcast a separate channel. Unless there will be UK focused opt outs at specific, regular times of the day - which still requires scheduled crews, talent and studios to be paid for, and reduces you ability to cover the news outside of those scheduled hours. 

...We watch lots of CBBC programmes - from Horrible Histories to Deadly 60 - but back-to-back on demand rather than on a curated channel. It's just the way the world works now and how media is consumed... 

How did you initially discover these shows, though? Through a trailer or watching them on linear TV to begin with? How would that happen if there is no "shop window" to tell you these shows exist when you're just starting to transition between CBeebies and CBBC content? 

To be honest, it would be hard, especially for me to imagine CBeebies without CBBC (on TV). If CBBC was merged with CBeebies, it would personally make more sense.

In what way does it make sense that at 4pm a 13 year old is forced to watch In The Night Garden or a 1 year old is forced to watch Blue Peter? 

...The changes to BBC News seem rational and will finally give it some certainty rather than the awkward kind-of-merging-but-trying-to-pretend-it-isn’t style they’ve been doing. I think it will be a better service for UK viewers...

You're a producer on this new super merged News Channel. On the same day as a mass elementary school shooting in the US, there is an unprecedented storm killing hundreds in India and the Prime Minister is ousted from his seat by his MPs after Partygate. Which story do you fill the next 3 hours with? How does that benefit both UK and international audiences? 

...this same [squeezing value for money] thought process needs to be made for every local radio station, every podcast, and anything that isn’t a core service. And if this sounds harsh - it’s what nearly every private company has to do. I’m really pleased that the person at the top seems to have this mindset too.

The BBC is essentially the only Public Service Broadcaster left in the UK. It should be doing things which get criticised for not being value for money. The value of their services shouldn't only be judged on how much audience it gets or how expensive it was, but on what cultural contribution it makes to society and how unique it is in the broadcasting landscape, balanced of course with the cost and reach. 

...if anything has to be cut, surely BBC Alba and BBC Scotland are more niche than something like CBBC?

Yes. But, as above, niche Is what the BBC as the last true PSB on the UK *should* be doing.

Radio 4 has such an excessively high budget compared to all other radio that it seems crazy it’s continually overlooked for cuts.

It has a very loyal listener base who would make the campaign to save 6 music seem small if major cuts were proposed.

Not even suggesting major cuts, I don’t think it should be immune from even small cuts the way it seems to be. A good start would be to simulcast World Service overnight

The World Service is already simulcast on R4 overnight. And I believe R4 is the most PSB thing the BBC does. This is a TV forum so I'll be brief, but can you tell me any other UK radio station which had a daily soap opera, or dramas, or comedy shows? What, do you think, is the reason for that?

You don't seem to know about history of the BBC as well, before 2002, there was only CBBC, merged and no CBeebies, and it probably would've stayed that way had it not been for Greg Dyke and Nigel Pickard.

[DTV]

I feel that I should point out that my original point about Radio 4 was not advocating for stringent cuts to it, but saying that you could make an argument for restructuring 3, 4 and 5 down to two stations - having Radio 3 as an arts and culture station (3's current ouvre, as well as comedy, drama and some other non-newsy talks from 4) while having 4 and 5 Live become a single news, sport and factual station (maintaining the Radio 4 flagships, with 5 Livey stuff filling out the remainder). If anything 4 was coming out relatively unscathed.

Fundamentally, 3, 4 and 5 are all big spenders in Radio terms and 3 and 5 are regularly accused of not really being distinct from commercial competitors. If you split 4 and cut back 3 and 5 you could save roughly 15-25% of their combined budget and create two new stations with better PSB justifications for existing. It might be controversial, but no services are being cut outright and a £25-40m saving isn't nothing in the current climate.

[AndrewP]

"In fifteen minutes we're racing away to full coverage of the Monaco Grand Prix, but first Lily's caught in the middle on The Archers"

Long wave is being switched off entirely it seems.

That would be a mighty shame, although understandable. Even the radio teleswitching service is being switched off
I don't know why but listening on LW feels a lot more satisfying than on FM - I think others have mentioned it before. AM makes voices sound a bit nicer

[Col87]

...Consolidating the news channel and BBC World News (though preserving the ability for the UK to opt out) is hardly a surprise...

Cue weekly "BBC pays journalists and technicians MILLIONS to SIT AROUND DOING NOTHING WAITING FOR BREAKING NEWS" stories. To have the true ability to opt out any time, you still need a presenter, producer, entire gallery and studio crew, makeup artists, etc etc etc - as well as a maintained, functioning, turned on studio - on standby. You may as well utilise those resources to, err, broadcast a separate channel. Unless there will be UK focused opt outs at specific, regular times of the day - which still requires scheduled crews, talent and studios to be paid for, and reduces you ability to cover the news outside of those scheduled hours. 

...We watch lots of CBBC programmes - from Horrible Histories to Deadly 60 - but back-to-back on demand rather than on a curated channel. It's just the way the world works now and how media is consumed... 

How did you initially discover these shows, though? Through a trailer or watching them on linear TV to begin with? How would that happen if there is no "shop window" to tell you these shows exist when you're just starting to transition between CBeebies and CBBC content? 

To be honest, it would be hard, especially for me to imagine CBeebies without CBBC (on TV). If CBBC was merged with CBeebies, it would personally make more sense.

In what way does it make sense that at 4pm a 13 year old is forced to watch In The Night Garden or a 1 year old is forced to watch Blue Peter? 

...The changes to BBC News seem rational and will finally give it some certainty rather than the awkward kind-of-merging-but-trying-to-pretend-it-isn’t style they’ve been doing. I think it will be a better service for UK viewers...

You're a producer on this new super merged News Channel. On the same day as a mass elementary school shooting in the US, there is an unprecedented storm killing hundreds in India and the Prime Minister is ousted from his seat by his MPs after Partygate. Which story do you fill the next 3 hours with? How does that benefit both UK and international audiences? 

...this same [squeezing value for money] thought process needs to be made for every local radio station, every podcast, and anything that isn’t a core service. And if this sounds harsh - it’s what nearly every private company has to do. I’m really pleased that the person at the top seems to have this mindset too.

The BBC is essentially the only Public Service Broadcaster left in the UK. It should be doing things which get criticised for not being value for money. The value of their services shouldn't only be judged on how much audience it gets or how expensive it was, but on what cultural contribution it makes to society and how unique it is in the broadcasting landscape, balanced of course with the cost and reach. 

...if anything has to be cut, surely BBC Alba and BBC Scotland are more niche than something like CBBC?

Yes. But, as above, niche Is what the BBC as the last true PSB on the UK *should* be doing.

Radio 4 has such an excessively high budget compared to all other radio that it seems crazy it’s continually overlooked for cuts.

It has a very loyal listener base who would make the campaign to save 6 music seem small if major cuts were proposed.

Not even suggesting major cuts, I don’t think it should be immune from even small cuts the way it seems to be. A good start would be to simulcast World Service overnight

The World Service is already simulcast on R4 overnight. And I believe R4 is the most PSB thing the BBC does. This is a TV forum so I'll be brief, but can you tell me any other UK radio station which had a daily soap opera, or dramas, or comedy shows? What, do you think, is the reason for that?

You don't seem to know about history of the BBC as well, before 2002, there was only CBBC, merged and no CBeebies, and it probably would've stayed that way had it not been for Greg Dyke and Nigel Pickard.

I tell you what let’s go even further back and Just dump everything on one BBC TV channel shall we. We will go back to an hour at 4 o clock for kids programs then certain posters might be happy then.  

Merging CBBC and CBeebies is a big no. Do you really expect to go back to the days of In the night garden followed by Blue Peter it don’t work. Even before they split in 2002 they were had split links for the pre school shows.  Same with merging Three and Four together a 1993 repeat of top of the pops followed be live in the flesh simply wouldn’t work.

[telebox2001]

I can't believe how reckless the BBC have been in their decision making here. Taking away CBBC is a huge abandonment of their PSB remit, and unless there will be a linear shop window in the post-school slot (going full circle I know) it will, eventually, kill it off.

- First off you're now required to buy either a new television or expensive outboard equipment in order to access the iPlayer in order continue to recieve children's television from the BBC,.

- Secondly, you now also require a fast broadband connection.

These are two huge financial commitments for the those on the very lowest incomes and very poorest families who despite paying a TV license, will now need to make extra investment to watch children's television.

Atop this, what about all the old dears that have no Internet connection or smart TV? The same old dears who are expected to babysit and entertain their grandkids during school holidays - something they now won't be able to do because they won't have broadband or suitable equipment. I'm sure I'm not the only one with memories of being dispatched to Grandad's and plonked in front of Playdays of a school holiday.

We have to ask should the BBC be for the many or for the few? Case in point - just 2m listen to R3 according to last week's RAJAR but Classic FM draws over 5m. Yet R3 is always immune from cuts despite eating up a huge amount of scarce spectrum resource. I'm not sure if it gets something back for the overnight show they produce for the EBU, but it's probably a drop in the ocean.

But instead the BBC attacks something used by the many.

The whole thing is just outrageous to be honest, and will alienate the very people who rely on the BBC the most.

[XIII]

I doubt we'll see the CBBC block return in the afternoons on either BBC One or BBC Two. People forget that the main reason the block was axed was it didn't rate and it was sub 0.5m back in 2012, it would do even worse now. Weekend blocks in the morning perhaps is more likely but TBH given kids consume more content online, going back to the days of old is a rose tinted view,

[Rex]

I think it’s a big mistake losing CBBC. To maintain the longevity of viewers sticking with the BBC, it has to serve them at all age groups. Dropping its linear channel is going to open it up to more competition from rivals and therefore lose any potential future BBC viewership.
It was why I was so dead against closing BBC Three to lose the young adult audience. But as that’s come back they’ve done something far worse and removing the linear option for older children.
A big mistake if you ask me.

I suppose you’d have to get into the head of a child of today, do they still grab the remote and scroll through the childrens section on the EPG and hence the BBC would lose out if they weren’t there, or do they just go online and watch what they want when they want?

I talked to my sister exactly about this, she was unhappy with the news of CBBC closing but having it on iPlayer is enough for her - it's more on demand than linear viewing in this case.

[DTV]

As a side note, can people please learn to edit quotes - you only really need to include the relevant parts of the most recent quote you are referencing.

[Col87]

I doubt we'll see the CBBC block return in the afternoons on either BBC One or BBC Two. People forget that the main reason the block was axed was it didn't rate and it was sub 0.5m back in 2012, it would do even worse now. Weekend blocks in the morning perhaps is more likely but TBH given kids consume more content online, going back to the days of old is a rose tinted view,

It’s not just about ratings though is it.  In 2012 it was axed because digital switchover was complete and everyone had access to CBBC and CBeebies.  The situation here is completely different. The BBC won’t be providing a service that everyone can get.  There are a still a lot of places without decent broadband so some children lose out. Not forgetting that CBBC is also the only children’s channel that’s makes PSB content and not just relying on cheap imports or cheaply made animation. That will be at risk if CBBC goes completely. 

Having a slot on BBC Two also fills up a few hours in slots where BBC Two outside of sport is struggling to fill.

[James2001]

Merging CBBC and CBeebies is a big no. Do you really expect to go back to the days of In the night garden followed by Blue Peter it don’t work. Even before they split in 2002 they were had split links for the pre school shows.  Same with merging Three and Four together a 1993 repeat of top of the pops followed be live in the flesh simply wouldn’t work.

All of the other kids channels have also long since separated their pre-school content to different channels as well, it would be ridiculous for the BBC to do the same. Tiny Pop, Cartoonito, Nick Jr, Little Be, Disney Junior before they closed, it's a long time since younger and older kids content have been on the same channels, would be ridiculous for the BBC to revert to it when everyone else has realised they really need to be in separate places.

[telebox2001]

Even CITV compartmentalised it back in the analogue days - preschool programmes were originally at lunchtime after schools and later This Morning.

In 1993 they moved to 3:30 to be part of the main CITV block but even though Gaz Top still did continuity, it had its own house style separate from main CITV. (Didn't they have a rabbit who counted on an Abacus as a mascot?)