Brekkie post_id=47725 time= user_id=976 Wrote:Zenith were owned by Carlton who had a stake in Central. I didn't realise this until seeing a report from the time labelling Carlton as the producer of Inspector Morse, which confused me as I thought they were the first publisher broadcaster within the network, but turns out once they won the London franchise they were forced to sell Zenith, even though it would have surely been the basis for them to have their own production house and would have been far smaller than Granada or Thames at the time.
Zenith was actually originally a subsidiary of Central. They sold it to Carlton when the rules came in that 25% of content had to come from independent producers, and Zenith wouldn't count as independent, being owned by a broadcaster. This was fine until Carlton became a broadcaster, and thus had to choose to either keep Zenith, but again lose its position as an independent producer, or sell it. They chose to sell it, considering again that it would lose its business of selling to other broadcasters.
Somewhere out there, you can’t help but feel like this was all done because Margaret Thatcher hated Thames for making that documentary against her
Either way, we did get some cool idents, especially Carlton’s whose branding was, of course by Lambie Nairn
And I also like Meridian’s music variations:
https://youtu.be/HWtpwnezcXc
i.h post_id=47653 time= user_id=1247 Wrote:... though you'd wonder why buying TSW's facilities wasn't an option too, as TSW did with Westward) and regional output being largely relegated to news as time went on, even before the Carlton takeover.
I don't think Derry's Cross would have been suitable. WCTV had grand plans for sub regional news. That was all based around a modern (for the era!) newsroom system. It would have required a rebuild of all facilities at Derry's Cross. Far easier and cheaper to start in an empty shed on an industrial estate.
reworP wehttaM post_id=47788 time= user_id=1114 Wrote:Somewhere out there, you can’t help but feel like this was all done because Margaret Thatcher hated Thames for making that documentary against her
The proposals to sell off franchises to the highest bidder were originally one of the outcomes of the Peacock Committee looking into alternative ways to fund the BBC, which was back in 1986. The Death on the Rock documentary wasn’t broadcast until 1988, which at the time those proposals were being considered, and the white paper wasn’t published until 1989, I believe.
Death on the Rock didn’t do Thames any favours with the government, but there’s no formal association with that one programme and the loss of Thames’s franchise. Thames were considerably outbid by Carlton, and by having the most lucrative franchise area, they were probably the most vulnerable franchise.
Markymark post_id=47797 time= user_id=1078 Wrote:i.h post_id=47653 time= user_id=1247 Wrote:... though you'd wonder why buying TSW's facilities wasn't an option too, as TSW did with Westward) and regional output being largely relegated to news as time went on, even before the Carlton takeover.
I don't think Derry's Cross would have been suitable. WCTV had grand plans for sub regional news. That was all based around a modern (for the era!) newsroom system. It would have required a rebuild of all facilities at Derry's Cross. Far easier and cheaper to start in an empty shed on an industrial estate.
Indeed- the original plan was for Westcountry to build on Sutton Road ironically next to where the BBC were planning to go- it was all linked in to Foot Anstey Sargent solicitors. In the end FAS built on the land in Sutton Road, and took the TSW building in Derry’s Cross and Westcountry took the unit at Langage as a result of TSW taking the legal route delaying them.
Markymark post_id=47797 time= user_id=1078 Wrote:I don't think Derry's Cross would have been suitable. WCTV had grand plans for sub regional news. That was all based around a modern (for the era!) newsroom system. It would have required a rebuild of all facilities at Derry's Cross. Far easier and cheaper to start in an empty shed on an industrial estate.
I'm not sure the sub regional opts were reliant on the newsroom systems, the main thing that allowed for it was changes to the way that Westcountry was distributed to the transmitters.
That said I can't imagine Derry Cross was very big to allow a totally new company to set up while the old one still operated. Very different to 1981 when it was a continuation of the same company, and also different to Southampton which was a bigger studio complex with lots of room (and lots of portacabins)
The' empty shed' was a last resort, the original plan was to be based in the Barbican area of Plymouth. Because TSW went to court about the decision they couldn't get started until the beginning of 1992 so they ended up on the science park on the outskirts and having to outsource presentation to HTV. The sub opts were also delayed by a few months, although the smaller studios around thr regions were mostly in place for launch. After all the bitterness TSW would never have offered them Derry Cross n the first place
I'd have thought that no bidder could promise to use the incumbents premises (unless they agreed beforehand which is unlikely). It would have been up to the outgoing one to be willing to sell, and in a lot of regions they probably would because what's the point of owning a large or modern TV facility in a provincial town when you're not a TV company?
Of course in the end only one of the new stations did take over the existing premises, very different to previous changeovers when the IBA forced/encouraged it
Scrotnig post_id=47568 time= user_id=2047 Wrote:It was an absolute travesty and marked the beginning of the end for what we knew as ITV back then.
I've no doubt that end would still have come about one way or another, however.
Spot on couldn’t agree more itv was ruined permanently Thames disappearing meant all those wonderful weekdays network programmes ended as well, I loved the fact I could switch over to tyne tees to a different style itv.
There's a bit on tvark.org about the 1991 franchise round, and one of the videos is from look north, out of Newcastle (bbc North East and Cumbria). In the report the head of Tyne tees, upon retaining their franchise, denied they would have to merge with neighbours Yorkshire.
Hatton Cross post_id=47570 time= user_id=1471 Wrote:I love how everyone forgets another commercial television broadcasting franchise that also lost it's bit of stamped paper to broadcast.
OK - so it happened slightly downstream of this anouncement, but Oracle Teletext also bit the dust at 23.59.59 on 31.12.1992.
And so did ITV 888 network subtitles for almost a week, because the insertion of them changed, and something got overlooked.
Thank goodness we now live in an age where that could never happen again ??
harshy post_id=47840 time= user_id=970 Wrote:Scrotnig post_id=47568 time= user_id=2047 Wrote:It was an absolute travesty and marked the beginning of the end for what we knew as ITV back then.
I've no doubt that end would still have come about one way or another, however.
Spot on couldn’t agree more itv was ruined permanently Thames disappearing meant all those wonderful weekdays network programmes ended as well, I loved the fact I could switch over to tyne tees to a different style itv.
You were able to switch over from Thames to Tyne Tees? Bilsdale certainly did have one hell of an overlap area! :lol:
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Spencer post_id=47913 time= user_id=891 Wrote:harshy post_id=47840 time= user_id=970 Wrote:Scrotnig post_id=47568 time= user_id=2047 Wrote:It was an absolute travesty and marked the beginning of the end for what we knew as ITV back then.
I've no doubt that end would still have come about one way or another, however.
Spot on couldn’t agree more itv was ruined permanently Thames disappearing meant all those wonderful weekdays network programmes ended as well, I loved the fact I could switch over to tyne tees to a different style itv.
You were able to switch over from Thames to Tyne Tees? Bilsdale certainly did have one hell of an overlap area! :lol:
I received Tyne Tees from Bilsdale once here in North Hampshire, during a 'lift', it was the only channel from Bilsdale that wasn't co-channel with Crystal Palace, but it could totally mangle up reception of Crystal Palace for folk south of London on those other three channels. It was a monster !
For something which a lot of ITV fans decry as being the death knell for the network as they knew it, there's no denying that the 1991 franchise round provided one of the most interesting and endlessly-discussed aspects of the network's entire history.
nwtv2003 post_id=47798 time= user_id=1028 Wrote:reworP wehttaM post_id=47788 time= user_id=1114 Wrote:Somewhere out there, you can’t help but feel like this was all done because Margaret Thatcher hated Thames for making that documentary against her
The proposals to sell off franchises to the highest bidder were originally one of the outcomes of the Peacock Committee looking into alternative ways to fund the BBC, which was back in 1986. The Death on the Rock documentary wasn’t broadcast until 1988, which at the time those proposals were being considered, and the white paper wasn’t published until 1989, I believe.
The Peacock Committee was set up with the express hope by Thatcher that it would recommend scrapping the licence fee. It didn't. The bulk of the other recommendations were carried forward though into the 1990 Broadcasting Act.
The recommendations are well documented But I've never been able to find a copy of the report itself. News Reports though are plentiful:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7ew06cG1Wk
Robertclark125 post_id=47842 time= user_id=1163 Wrote:There's a bit on tvark.org about the 1991 franchise round, and one of the videos is from look north, out of Newcastle (bbc North East and Cumbria). In the report the head of Tyne tees, upon retaining their franchise, denied they would have to merge with neighbours Yorkshire.
Considering they did exactly that in 1992, surely they overbid? Did all of their rivals fail on quality grounds?