Ben post_id=47607 time=1634393667 user_id=49 Wrote:Even if Thames, TV-am, TVS or TSW had stuck around they wouldn't have been the same companies they had been and they would have been swallowed up by the other companies (or been doing the swallowing in the case of Thames) as the rules had changed.
There's a really interesting book about the franchise bidding, the name of which escapes me, but it details the other potential bids including just how bad they would have been. The one involving Mentorn was particularly ludicrous I seem to recall.
The book is probably Under The Hammer by Andrew Davidson, which is fascinating. The bid involving Mentorn was LIB, who bid against LWT and they do sound a shambles. It says that just after they'd finished writing their bid someone contrived to trip over the lead and unplug the computer, and of course they hadn't saved it, so they had to write it all again, and then just before they went to submit it they realised they'd missed a page out so they had to run around looking for a printer and stapler.
You're probably right about the existing companies. In the book Independent Television in Britain, which discusses it in detail, there's a quote from Harry Turner of TSW saying that to justify their bid they would have contracted absolutely everything out and sold the studios and eventually you'd have a newsroom and a sales department, maybe not even the latter. But that sounds so unlike what TSW was, you wonder why they were bothering, saving the company in name only.
The book also quotes George Russell of the ITC saying that the only company that would have got through on exceptional circumstances was Meridian as they were offering three regional news programmes compared to the other bidders' two, which was considered an exceptional offer. So they presumably would have won whatever TVS did.
Steve Williams post_id=47646 time=1634401728 user_id=1326 Wrote:Ben post_id=47607 time=1634393667 user_id=49 Wrote:Even if Thames, TV-am, TVS or TSW had stuck around they wouldn't have been the same companies they had been and they would have been swallowed up by the other companies (or been doing the swallowing in the case of Thames) as the rules had changed.
There's a really interesting book about the franchise bidding, the name of which escapes me, but it details the other potential bids including just how bad they would have been. The one involving Mentorn was particularly ludicrous I seem to recall.
The book is probably Under The Hammer by Andrew Davidson, which is fascinating. The bid involving Mentorn was LIB, who bid against LWT and they do sound a shambles. It says that just after they'd finished writing their bid someone contrived to trip over the lead and unplug the computer, and of course they hadn't saved it, so they had to write it all again, and then just before they went to submit it they realised they'd missed a page out so they had to run around looking for a printer and stapler.
You're probably right about the existing companies. In the book Independent Television in Britain, which discusses it in detail, there's a quote from Harry Turner of TSW saying that to justify their bid they would have contracted absolutely everything out and sold the studios and eventually you'd have a newsroom and a sales department, maybe not even the latter. But that sounds so unlike what TSW was, you wonder why they were bothering, saving the company in name only.
The book also quotes George Russell of the ITC saying that the only company that would have got through on exceptional circumstances was Meridian as they were offering three regional news programmes compared to the other bidders' two, which was considered an exceptional offer. So they presumably would have won whatever TVS did.
Of course Turner was sort of proven right anyway, with Westcountry contracting out its playout to HTV (albeit in large part due to the delays from the court challenges, though you'd wonder why buying TSW's facilities wasn't an option too, as TSW did with Westward) and regional output being largely relegated to news as time went on, even before the Carlton takeover.
I wonder if the need to bid was due to some belief that they had to do everything they could for shareholders - better to try and lose then to not have done it at all etc
Steve Williams post_id=47646 time= user_id=1326 Wrote:The book also quotes George Russell of the ITC saying that the only company that would have got through on exceptional circumstances was Meridian as they were offering three regional news programmes compared to the other bidders' two, which was considered an exceptional offer. So they presumably would have won whatever TVS did.
TVS were proposing two full 'half regions' but three sub opts,
So
South with a Thames Valley and a Brighton sub-opt, and
South East with an East Sussex sub-opt.
In fact, apart from the Brighton sub opt, everything else they'd been doing since the late 80s anyway, so nothing terribly revolutionary.
Anyway, for me Oct 16th always reminds me of Capital Radio's birth in 1973, rather than ITV's (arguable) death in 1991. Just saying.
On a related note to ITV companies, former Granada CEO Gerry Robinson died this week:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sir-g...-jvvbfq98c
Quote:In 1991 he was brought in to rescue Granada, the catering, leisure and media group. Headhunted specifically to prevent the company from being taken over, he took a knife to a business spanning television, motorway services, ten-pin bowling, nightclubs and computers. His most high-profile victim was David Plowright, Granada TV’s long-term chairman. Robinson later admitted he had underestimated the loyalty towards Plowright, underlined by the message: “Dear Gerry Robinson, F*** off out of it, you ignorant upstart caterer. Best wishes, John Cleese.”
“It was a f***ing nightmare,” Robinson told The Sunday Times. “I just saw [Plowright’s removal] as a necessary management change. I had no idea it would cause such a stink.”
After Plowright’s departure analysts had feared for Granada, whose programmes included World In Action and Coronation Street. However, in Robinson’s first five years, the company’s earnings quadrupled and its share price trebled, giving him unqualified support from investors.
It's worth mentioning the three who won unopposed. Central and Scottish each bid just £2,000. Border bid £56,000. What would have been the reasons for no one else wanting the Border, Central Scotland, or Midlands franchises?
Well I could understand why Border was hardly a hot property, but Central is very odd, how did they know nobody else was bidding?
I have to also say that’s a very comprehensive account of the day’s coverage in the first post. Amazing really that there was so much coverage saved for posterity. If this forum had been around it would have been like Christmas Day with so much media news at the top of the headlines.
Robertclark125 post_id=47697 time= user_id=1163 Wrote:It's worth mentioning the three who won unopposed. Central and Scottish each bid just £2,000. Border bid £56,000. What would have been the reasons for no one else wanting the Border, Central Scotland, or Midlands franchises?
My understanding for both STV and Central being unopposed is because they got on well with independent producers, and saw that it was better to have them on side than going against them. I’d also say with Central is that whoever took on the franchise would have had to maintain 3 full time local news services. (But Meridian I guess makes that argument redundant.)
With Border, I guess it’s just not a lucrative franchise given it’s the smallest franchise in the mainland, and second smallest after Channel.
Whilst the franchise round was ridiculous, it was inevitable and ITV would have ended up as a single entity anyway. Slightly different structure? Possibly, yes. The only thing I would say is that by losing Thames, I think in terms of quality ITV was certainly worse off. Losing TV-am and TVS didn’t make any difference to the network, and I can’t say there’s any love lost for TSW outside of the south west.
I’m sure I heard that Central were quite cunning in forming good relationships with potential rival bidders. I have Zenith in mind for some reason in particular who they favoured as an independent producer. Perhaps someone can clarify?
They (and Scottish) must have known for absolute certain that no-one was going to bid against them for them both to have gone in so low.
I’ve got the book on 1990-91 franchisee round and it’s a great read. Central was indeed saved mostly by its independent relationships with other producers but that the 3 news rooms in terms of a new company would have been a nightmare to set up.
What isn’t talked much amount in forums is just how close and by close it was a hairs breath that both Yorkshire and HTV came to loosing for over bidding. The ITC board members had several meetings and you get the thoughts that they both were mightily close.
We here lost TSW - you get the feeing they picked a figure at the last moment hoping it was high enough (Westcountry had the clout and knowledge to set up) and that TSW panicked. It back fired.
Obviously GMTV had to go to ITC for an heavy reduction in their fee in subsequent years- could TSW have done the same if they’d got through- perhaps.
To be brutal. Thames/TVS/TVAM all doomed from the start.
Spencer post_id=47719 time= user_id=891 Wrote:I’m sure I heard that Central were quite cunning in forming good relationships with potential rival bidders. I have Zenith in mind for some reason in particular who they favoured as an independent producer. Perhaps someone can clarify?
Zenith were owned by Carlton who had a stake in Central. I didn't realise this until seeing a report from the time labelling Carlton as the producer of Inspector Morse, which confused me as I thought they were the first publisher broadcaster within the network, but turns out once they won the London franchise they were forced to sell Zenith, even though it would have surely been the basis for them to have their own production house and would have been far smaller than Granada or Thames at the time.
As things turned out most ITV companies went cap in hand to the ITC at some point for discounts. In some cases to below the level the incumbent had bid in the first place. TV-am infamously bid £14m and the later GMTV had their payments reduced below that level, despite having bid something like £36m in the first place.
And yet at least one other company was disqualified for overbidding, as that was the amount they'd have to hand over to the ITC every year. TVS were disqualified on this front even though their projections turned out to be right, and IIRC it was HTV who virtually bankrupted themselves to scrape together a figure for the bid. Which was also reduced in due course.
I'm guessing the amount ITV Plc pay for the privilege of all but two of the licences nowadays is probably nearer to what Central paid than what GMTV pledged?
Did the money paid to the ITC go into the broadcasting network or was it straight to the treasury?
Brekkie post_id=47728 time= user_id=976 Wrote:I'm guessing the amount ITV Plc pay for the privilege of all but two of the licences nowadays is probably nearer to what Central paid than what GMTV pledged?
Did the money paid to the ITC go into the broadcasting network or was it straight to the treasury?
AIUI all revenue to the ITC/Ofcom ends up at the treasury. Which is where all money in this country ultimately ends up one way or another.
Spencer post_id=47719 time= user_id=891 Wrote:I’m sure I heard that Central were quite cunning in forming good relationships with potential rival bidders. I have Zenith in mind for some reason in particular who they favoured as an independent producer. Perhaps someone can clarify?
They (and Scottish) must have known for absolute certain that no-one was going to bid against them for them both to have gone in so low.
Yes, as mentioned in Independent Television in Britain, Central were working with a lot of indies, and indeed they contacted all of them to ask them if they'd like to support them in their bid. The only one that didn't was Mentorn, as they were weighing up a bid against them, and so they promptly offered them a two-year contract and Mentorn bid against LWT instead. As mentioned, they also had the benefit of three regional news programmes which any other bidder would have to have matched.
STV were the same, and Gus MacDonald says in the book that they went to the non-executive directors on the board and said "You're supposed to be the best solicitors/accountants/etc in Scotland so presumably you'll know if anyone else is planning anything".
The reason both bid £2000 is that it was requested their bid be in "multiples of £1000" and after speaking to each other, they couldn't decide if £1000 was a multiple of £1000, so went for £2000 to be safe.
Border went for £52,000 while unopposed because at the last minute there was a rumour someone else was bidding, so they decided they had to offer a bit more, and thought that £50,000 would probably be about the amount a competitor might bid, so they went for a little bit more than that. But in the end nobody bid and in the book they say the rumour was probably from someone mixing them up with Tyne Tees.