TV Live Forum

Maybe this is not the right place for this , but how come the subtitles on the reruns of the older episodes have half the dialogue deleted ? And random capital P in the text ?

You do sometimes get a random capital P instead of a hyphen, and similar errors. Things like this used to happen on analogue when the signal strength dropped, but I’m not sure if digital text/subtitles would be affected the same way.

Si-Co post_id=26201 time= user_id=1388 Wrote:You do sometimes get a random capital P instead of a hyphen, and similar errors. Things like this used to happen on analogue when the signal strength dropped, but I’m not sure if digital text/subtitles would be affected the same way.

These are recent reruns whenever they air and not old analog recordings

MatijaTelevizija post_id=26253 time= user_id=1795 Wrote:

Si-Co post_id=26201 time= user_id=1388 Wrote:You do sometimes get a random capital P instead of a hyphen, and similar errors. Things like this used to happen on analogue when the signal strength dropped, but I’m not sure if digital text/subtitles would be affected the same way.

These are recent reruns whenever they air and not old analog recordings

Yes, I realise that. I was asking whether subtitling on digital television could suffer similar problems to analogue if there was an issue with signal strength or similar.

Si-Co post_id=26451 time= user_id=1388 Wrote:

MatijaTelevizija post_id=26253 time= user_id=1795 Wrote:

Si-Co post_id=26201 time= user_id=1388 Wrote:You do sometimes get a random capital P instead of a hyphen, and similar errors. Things like this used to happen on analogue when the signal strength dropped, but I’m not sure if digital text/subtitles would be affected the same way.

These are recent reruns whenever they air and not old analog recordings

Yes, I realise that. I was asking whether subtitling on digital television could suffer similar problems to analogue if there was an issue with signal strength or similar.

I wonder if it's possible the files have been corrupted somehow over the years? What sort of format are they kept on?

James2001 post_id=26453 time= user_id=956 Wrote:

Si-Co post_id=26451 time= user_id=1388 Wrote:

MatijaTelevizija post_id=26253 time= user_id=1795 Wrote:These are recent reruns whenever they air and not old analog recordings

Yes, I realise that. I was asking whether subtitling on digital television could suffer similar problems to analogue if there was an issue with signal strength or similar.

I wonder if it's possible the files have been corrupted somehow over the years? What sort of format are they kept on?

I use Sky so they are still delivered in Teletext but converted in the software to use Sky `s Zurich font and deliver without having to bring up Text ( I use Sky+HD not Sky Q btw ) In the case of recent broadcasting they were old Teletext files converted to whatever files they use now and then for Sky converted back to Teletext ?

And speaking of these old subtitles , does anyone know when the “ The colours tonight are: “ introductory subtitles , were removed ?

Weren't subtitles embedded in the analogue tape masters? If they weren't read accurately when the episodes were digitised you'd expect similar errors to those you get on reception.

Would they have been analogue masters by 1997, wouldn't they be on D3 by then?

James2001 post_id=26464 time= user_id=956 Wrote:Would they have been analogue masters by 1997, wouldn't they be on D3 by then?

At least the BBC would have changed their system around that time , yes

TomJ post_id=26167 time= user_id=1368 Wrote:

MatijaTelevizija post_id=26047 time= user_id=1795 Wrote:Maybe this is not the right place for this , but how come the subtitles on the reruns of the older episodes have half the dialogue deleted ? And random capital P in the text ?

Not sure what you mean about the random capital P, but the subtitles on the reruns will be the original ones from the time. Dialogue used to be edited much more in the past than it is now, because subtitling standards have changed and there's now a much faster reading rate.

Yep, subtitles used to be heavily paraphrased back in the 90's compared to today. You can also see this on the Emmerdale and Corrie reruns.

James Martin post_id=26613 time= user_id=872 Wrote:

TomJ post_id=26167 time= user_id=1368 Wrote:

MatijaTelevizija post_id=26047 time= user_id=1795 Wrote:Maybe this is not the right place for this , but how come the subtitles on the reruns of the older episodes have half the dialogue deleted ? And random capital P in the text ?

Not sure what you mean about the random capital P, but the subtitles on the reruns will be the original ones from the time. Dialogue used to be edited much more in the past than it is now, because subtitling standards have changed and there's now a much faster reading rate.

Yep, subtitles used to be heavily paraphrased back in the 90's compared to today. You can also see this on the Emmerdale and Corrie reruns.

This was the way it was , because the accessibility technology for Deaf people was not standardised , so at the time it was thought that over-simplifying for Deaf consumers was actually a good thing rather than infantilising ?

MatijaTelevizija post_id=26620 time= user_id=1795 Wrote:

James Martin post_id=26613 time= user_id=872 Wrote:

TomJ post_id=26167 time= user_id=1368 Wrote:Not sure what you mean about the random capital P, but the subtitles on the reruns will be the original ones from the time. Dialogue used to be edited much more in the past than it is now, because subtitling standards have changed and there's now a much faster reading rate.

Yep, subtitles used to be heavily paraphrased back in the 90's compared to today. You can also see this on the Emmerdale and Corrie reruns.

This was the way it was , because the accessibility technology for Deaf people was not standardised , so at the time it was thought that over-simplifying for Deaf consumers was actually a good thing rather than infantilising ?

Yes, I remember watching Grange Hill with subtitles in the mid 80s and the vocabulary was really dumbed down: “You’ll get compensation” was changed to “I’ll give you some money”, and “Look who it is? Flippin’ Stewpot!” became “It is Stewpot!”

Someone asked when Ceefax discontinued allocating certain colours to specific characters and displaying “Tonight’s colours are…” over the opening titles. Not sure, but I’ve seen it on EastEnders repeats from the early 90s. I never considered this particularly helpful, as you would have to memorise (or write down) who was what colour, and in a communal scene everyone other than one or two characters were subtitled in white, with rarely a clue as to who was speaking. I much preferred Oracle’s use of up to six colours (including white) in each scene, helpful arrows if the speaker was off-camera, and “stage directions” (eg. Door Shuts, Telephone Rings) subtitled with a red background**. Compared to subtitles now (which even on repeats rarely seem to be the original ones) there were fewer errors such as character names spelt wrong, wrong characters credited (eg Kathy sighs - but Kathy’s not in the scene!), and bad guesswork on imports where no script is provided to work off.

**I’m hard of hearing, and use subtitles to help with dialogue I don’t hear clearly. I’m not sure if a profoundly deaf person would share my views.

Si-Co post_id=26851 time= user_id=1388 Wrote:

MatijaTelevizija post_id=26620 time= user_id=1795 Wrote:

James Martin post_id=26613 time= user_id=872 Wrote:Yep, subtitles used to be heavily paraphrased back in the 90's compared to today. You can also see this on the Emmerdale and Corrie reruns.

This was the way it was , because the accessibility technology for Deaf people was not standardised , so at the time it was thought that over-simplifying for Deaf consumers was actually a good thing rather than infantilising ?

Yes, I remember watching Grange Hill with subtitles in the mid 80s and the vocabulary was really dumbed down: “You’ll get compensation” was changed to “I’ll give you some money”, and “Look who it is? Flippin’ Stewpot!” became “It is Stewpot!”

Someone asked when Ceefax discontinued allocating certain colours to specific characters and displaying “Tonight’s colours are…” over the opening titles. Not sure, but I’ve seen it on EastEnders repeats from the early 90s. I never considered this particularly helpful, as you would have to memorise (or write down) who was what colour, and in a communal scene everyone other than one or two characters were subtitled in white, with rarely a clue as to who was speaking. I much preferred Oracle’s use of up to six colours (including white) in each scene, helpful arrows if the speaker was off-camera, and “stage directions” (eg. Door Shuts, Telephone Rings) subtitled with a red background**. Compared to subtitles now (which even on repeats rarely seem to be the original ones) there were fewer errors such as character names spelt wrong, wrong characters credited (eg Kathy sighs - but Kathy’s not in the scene!), and bad guesswork on imports where no script is provided to work off.

**I’m hard of hearing, and use subtitles to help with dialogue I don’t hear clearly. I’m not sure if a profoundly deaf person would share my views.

I am also hard-of-hearing ( and not a native English speaker ) , and yes , Oracle subtitles did better than Ceefax back before it was standardised. Later the red and magenta were retired for actual dialog ( but some transcription providers use magenta for character labels ). And , of course , the dumbing-down was because of no standardisation either , as I already said , it was not seen as infantilising at the time even though of course it is very infantilising ?

( slightly off-topic ) You are also right about imports having bad subtitles. My son used to watch a show on Nickelodeon called icarly and the Pilot episode particularly had bad subtitles such as Carly ( who is in eighth-GRADE by the time of the episode ) being falsely transcribed as 8 YEARS old

Maybe we could make a proper Subtitles / Teletext thread , I just have no idea which sub-forum it would go on ?

How come subtitles on live shows are VERY behind ? Always wondered ?

MatijaTelevizija post_id=27467 time= user_id=1795 Wrote:How come subtitles on live shows are VERY behind ? Always wondered ?

As technicians use the audio and picture to sync together to create subtitles, with live shows they have to do it as it is being broadcast. So on shows like the Last Leg the subtitles are generated as it's live.

Whereas on pre-recorded programmes they can simply do it at their own pace, whenever.