ITN Nostalgia

[itsrobert]

I know we briefly discussed the fabulous Martin Lambie-Nairn ITN News titles from 1995 just before TV Forum closed, but something still puzzles me.

I had always assumed that the logo at the end (i.e. ITN Lunchtime News) was keyed in live each time as it remained on screen after the mix to the studio wide angle camera shot. However, looking at the examples on MLN's YouTube account, it seems the logo was actually part of the titles.

So, how did that effect work? It's probably something really simple but is, I'm afraid, lost on me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTQEnU6XrVo

[Pip]

I loved these titles. Obviously I don't know for sure, I'm only theorising. It could be that these were composited to purely to demonstrate how the titles would look and weren't the versions actually used on air. Could it be that the broadcast versions would fade the background leaving the graphics on screen with the studio shot being keyed in behind?

[AaronLancs]

I'd assume it was akin to an early version of how the BBC do it with the boxes since moving to Broadcasting House. But here is my sequence of events just based on guesswork.

>Titles Play with "ITN News" embedded into them.
> "Aston" or similar is layered over 0.5 seconds after the legend appears onscreen.
> Fade from titles to studio with legend still onscreen.
> Zoom in on main camera.
> Fade out legend.

At least that is my guess at least. But there are other who would be able to expand or correct anything I've got wrong.

[VMPhil]

I loved these titles. Obviously I don't know for sure, I'm only theorising. It could be that these were composited to purely to demonstrate how the titles would look and weren't the versions actually used on air. Could it be that the broadcast versions would fade the background leaving the graphics on screen with the studio shot being keyed in behind?

That's what I would have thought, that it would fade to a green screen with the logo still on screen so they could key in the wide shot.

[itsrobert]

I loved these titles. Obviously I don't know for sure, I'm only theorising. It could be that these were composited to purely to demonstrate how the titles would look and weren't the versions actually used on air. Could it be that the broadcast versions would fade the background leaving the graphics on screen with the studio shot being keyed in behind?

That's what I would have thought, that it would fade to a green screen with the logo still on screen so they could key in the wide shot.

Is that how these 540 titles would have been achieved? I've never fully understood the technology behind them being able to have the ITN logo spinning here, there and everywhere with pictures behind. Would the opening/closing titles have consisted of the logo animation against a green background on videotape and somehow the pictures/studio shot are keyed in behind? Or am I barking up completely the wrong tree?

https://youtu.be/KAE_dr6G1VU?t=15

[lobster]

I can’t help but think that if it was done with a keyed colour you’d get loads of fringing. Did the concept of an alpha channel exist back then?

That clip brings back memories, can remember watching the news at 5.45 when I was a boy, and being mesmerised by sue carpenter for some reason.

I actually think the itn 545 was a good sweetspot for both timing and time slot - get rid of the fannying about walking around the studio and just give me the news, useful analysis down the lens, no banter, no cat stuck up a tree in Kettering, no standing outside stormont or 10 Downing Street for no reason. Just the news, Phil Roman style. I can’t say I’ve watched any news for any length of time on the telly for ages now, it’s quite painful.

[itsrobert]

I actually think the itn 545 was a good sweetspot for both timing and time slot - get rid of the fannying about walking around the studio and just give me the news, useful analysis down the lens, no banter, no cat stuck up a tree in Kettering, no standing outside stormont or 10 Downing Street for no reason. Just the news, Phil Roman style. I can’t say I’ve watched any news for any length of time on the telly for ages now, it’s quite painful.

I totally agree with you, [mention]lobster[/mention]. The early evening bulletin before 1999 was always my favourite. It really packed a punch and just fired straight, no-nonsense news at you. You had News at Ten for more analysis and special reports and the lunchtime bulletin always had more of a developing feel to it - a little bit more fluid and "live" as such. But, the early evening bulletin certainly did hit the sweet spot, as you rightly said.

I definitely think less is often more and that there is room for such a bulletin in this day and age. Not everything has to be a flabby 30+ minutes full of analysis, opinions, pointless OBs and OTT presentation techniques. Like you, I have largely given broadcast news a miss for a good while now, especially during the pandemic but even back into the Brexit days when it was just unbearable. I find news bulletins exhausting and depressing to watch now. I would be much more likely to tune in for a shorter, more focused bulletin.

[JK1985]

I actually think the itn 545 was a good sweetspot for both timing and time slot - get rid of the fannying about walking around the studio and just give me the news, useful analysis down the lens, no banter, no cat stuck up a tree in Kettering, no standing outside stormont or 10 Downing Street for no reason. Just the news, Phil Roman style. I can’t say I’ve watched any news for any length of time on the telly for ages now, it’s quite painful.

I totally agree with you, [mention]lobster[/mention]. The early evening bulletin before 1999 was always my favourite. It really packed a punch and just fired straight, no-nonsense news at you. You had News at Ten for more analysis and special reports and the lunchtime bulletin always had more of a developing feel to it - a little bit more fluid and "live" as such. But, the early evening bulletin certainly did hit the sweet spot, as you rightly said.

I definitely think less is often more and that there is room for such a bulletin in this day and age. Not everything has to be a flabby 30+ minutes long full of analysis, opinions, pointless OBs and OTT presentation techniques. Like you, I have largely given broadcast news a miss for a good while now, especially during the pandemic but even back into the Brexit days when it was just unbearable. I find news bulletins exhausting and depressing to watch now. I would be much more likely to tune in for a shorter, more focused bulletin.

The Early Evening News was always good, as ITV felt the last thing people wanted when they came home from work, and were making their supper was a heavy news programme, but rather a concise short news bulletin. Too heavy for that time of the day, as said here before, News at Ten was the perfect time for news analysis, not 5.40pm.

[itsrobert]

I actually think the itn 545 was a good sweetspot for both timing and time slot - get rid of the fannying about walking around the studio and just give me the news, useful analysis down the lens, no banter, no cat stuck up a tree in Kettering, no standing outside stormont or 10 Downing Street for no reason. Just the news, Phil Roman style. I can’t say I’ve watched any news for any length of time on the telly for ages now, it’s quite painful.

I totally agree with you, [mention]lobster[/mention]. The early evening bulletin before 1999 was always my favourite. It really packed a punch and just fired straight, no-nonsense news at you. You had News at Ten for more analysis and special reports and the lunchtime bulletin always had more of a developing feel to it - a little bit more fluid and "live" as such. But, the early evening bulletin certainly did hit the sweet spot, as you rightly said.

I definitely think less is often more and that there is room for such a bulletin in this day and age. Not everything has to be a flabby 30+ minutes long full of analysis, opinions, pointless OBs and OTT presentation techniques. Like you, I have largely given broadcast news a miss for a good while now, especially during the pandemic but even back into the Brexit days when it was just unbearable. I find news bulletins exhausting and depressing to watch now. I would be much more likely to tune in for a shorter, more focused bulletin.

The Early Evening News was always good, as ITV felt the last thing people wanted when they came home from work, and were making their supper was a heavy news programme, but rather a concise short news bulletin. Too heavy for that time of the day, as said here before, News at Ten was the perfect time for news analysis, not 5.40pm.

I'd say that thinking is absolutely right and it makes you wonder why they thought it a good idea to effectively move News at Ten to 6.30pm in 1999. We're still left with the remnants of that decision now as the Evening News retains the same sort of feel as it has since then. The Nightly News ended up more of an EEN at 11pm but was fairly quickly replaced with a News at Ten bulletin again. Apart from the Lunchtime News, which still retains that "live" feeling (although is now much more female orientated than it was, I would say), the rest of the ITV bulletins are fairly substantial. Personally, I would prefer it if they reduced the scope and duration of the Evening News a bit and keep News at Ten as the flagship as it always was. The Evening News would be better for my tastes if it went back to a short, no-nonsense bulletin.

[lobster]

in answer to the original question, looking at the opening video here:

[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYwXxaTwk10&t=10s[/media]

I suspect the whole wide shot and title sequence is a pre-record and so the wide shot is just dropped into a template.

when you look at the transition between wide and close, it doesn't quite seem to sync.

I also found another news at ten where the wide shot from the atrium to the studio the presenter was wearing a different coloured tie - I'm guessing for the time just pre-recording the headline and end sequences with the wide shot would have been the easiest solution - I'll try and find it again.

[simesa]

My memory is a bit hazy but having played in those titles hundreds of times, the 1745 was live, but we did pre record the News At Ten headlines (a different tape or cue point for each presenter).

The actual Beta tape had a freeze at the moment they mixed to the studio shot so would have been a live Aston mixed from the Beta.

You can see on these examples (check out the drop-out having been played so much!) https://youtu.be/QSNxhkC8wLE

[itsrobert]

My memory is a bit hazy but having played in those titles hundreds of times, the 1745 was live, but we did pre record the News At Ten headlines (a different tape or cue point for each presenter).

The actual Beta tape had a freeze at the moment they mixed to the studio shot so would have been a live Aston mixed from the Beta.

You can see on these examples (check out the drop-out having been played so much!) https://youtu.be/QSNxhkC8wLE

Absolutely fantastic! Thank you so much for posting those titles and for your memories, [mention]simesa[/mention].

I know that ITN used Sonifex Discart at the time these titles were used - I take it the V/O was played in from a floppy disk? Otherwise you would have had to have had many examples on video with different presenter combinations for the Lunchtime News for instance.

One thing I have always wondered about - when the Early Evening News dropped the Big Ben titles in 1997 in favour of a studio wide shot (and for the weekend news bulletins that started in a similar fashion) did you continue to play the titles (well, music and V/O) in from Beta but out of vision?

Hope that makes sense!

[itsrobert]

[mention]simesa[/mention] here's an example of what I mean:

https://youtu.be/ZNcQ2Qw-kKw?t=55

[JK1985]

The original thinking back in 1999 was to take the 20 minute Early Evening News format, move it to 11.00pm and name it Nightly News. Then they take News at Ten, move it to 6.30pm and rename it Evening News. Bridging the gap, a short one minute news update would appear at 10.00pm, with a "coming up" on Nightly News theme to it.

This enabled them to open up the 7.00pm to 11.00pm slot for more sport, movies, dramas which would had have to be halted for News at Ten, so you can understand the reasoning behind the 1999 changes.

However for me the 2001 changes was when ITV News just showed how little they cared about news. To be fair, ITV News were forced into changing by the ITC and public opinion, however what could have been a PR triumph for ITV News turned into a PR disaster with the botched job they did.

In Jan 2001 they took the 20 minute Nightly News moved it to 10.00pm and just renamed it News at Ten, even though it was never the old style News at Ten, it was simply the Nightly News now at 10.00pm instead of 11.00pm, with Sir Trevor anchoring to make it look like the old News at Ten.

To make matters even worse, the regional news was cast adrift on its own at around 11.20pm. The Friday late news was titled "Weekend News" and aired at 11.00pm and then to add more insult to the viewer, ITV were granted permission that on 52 times of the year, they could move News at Ten to a different slot to accommodate sport, movies etc. What a mess.

If they had have left it as it was back in 1999 before the major changes, I believe ITV News could have remained strong, but 1999 was the start of the decline for me personally on ITV News.

[RR]

In addition, it enabled the BBC to move their main news to ten, a time that has helped them no end, and a time when they now usually have the highest ratings for news. I doubt they would have been able to move to that slot if ITV hadn't moved.