BBC Four & CBBC to close

[all new Phil]

Yes cuts in the nations are "politically explosive" but are also an enormous waste of money.  I'm absolutely 100% of the opinion the Scotland channel needs to be scrapped but beyond that there's a lot of duplication of roles and responsibilities.

As a huge fan of the music documentaries etc. on BBC Four this is very sad news.  I shall miss them.

But political contentions is always going to be driving feature of how the BBC makes decisions.

I’d rather value for money be the main deciding factor.

[GraemeT]

A thought... why does cbbc need to exist between 830-330 when kids of cbbc age are at school.

CBeebies different story of course.

Maybe the old kids morning and evening slots should return on but in bbc2 say 6-8 and 4-7?

You could apply that logic to any children's channel though. Of course if kids are off school ill or maybe even being home schooled, or even where school holidays vary across the country it's useful. When the CBBC channel first started they used to show schools programming during the day as well as some classic CBBC shows, there's no reason why they couldn't return to that.

I don’t think the off sick thing should be a prime focus - that’s the perfect iplayer fall back.

With the educational during day - I guess that’s an old throw back to when people would Betamax those so as to watch later etc. If the target audience isn’t about - why broadcast live.

Would a few hours of kids programming on 2 be detrimental to 2? Lots of people suggesting taking THAT off air during the day too!

[natashajacobs]

Radio 4 has such an excessively high budget compared to all other radio that it seems crazy it’s continually overlooked for cuts.

It has a very loyal listener base who would make the campaign to save 6 music seem small if major cuts were proposed.

Not even suggesting major cuts, I don’t think it should be immune from even small cuts the way it seems to be. A good start would be to simulcast World Service overnight

[Sky303]

I don't get the logic of bringing back BBC Three as a channel (this is not a slight on BBC Three) because of they wanted more reach for youth programming to now now get rid of CBBC channel , which is also a youth channel. They would have the same problem then right?

Also, I guess in theory. BBC Two's daytime hours could be refitted to have a CBBC block like RTE Two does, in theory.

[thePineapple]

Reading these threads has made me a bit more optimistic than when I first saw the press release - if the BBC do this right, by finding some method of prioritising UK and World news viewers at the right times, and perhaps displaying some CBBC content on other channels - this could genuinely make their services better, with fewer repeats and more targeted material.
I'm still apprehensive though - that's a BIG 'if', and the BBC's approach to changes in the past has been hit and miss. I just hope they think through what they're doing, and that these cuts aren't just cost-saving measures veiled in PR, as Tim Davie promises us they aren't.

[Newshound47]

I think one of the biggest controversies of the entire cuts might be the ending of BBC Radio 4 long wave and particularly the effect on Test Match special. According to the Telegraph it has abeen condemned as dreadful news by Sir Geoffrey Boycott.

---

Radio 4 has such an excessively high budget compared to all other radio that it seems crazy it’s continually overlooked for cuts.

It has a very loyal listener base who would make the campaign to save 6 music seem small if major cuts were proposed.

Not even suggesting major cuts, I don’t think it should be immune from even small cuts the way it seems to be. A good start would be to simulcast World Service overnight

That’s already the case for Radio 4.

---

Yes cuts in the nations are "politically explosive" but are also an enormous waste of money.  I'm absolutely 100% of the opinion the Scotland channel needs to be scrapped but beyond that there's a lot of duplication of roles and responsibilities.

As a huge fan of the music documentaries etc. on BBC Four this is very sad news.  I shall miss them.

But political contentions is always going to be driving feature of how the BBC makes decisions.

I’d rather value for money be the main deciding factor.

I think most people would but it’s difficult area.

[Aaron]

The risk with CBBC is it goes against the plan of trying to attract younger viewers to the BBC. I know that was largely referring to young adults, but if you take away CBBC and make it equal with any other online content, you end up with older children consuming zero BBC content and facing the same battle later on.

I would agree with others who suggested a block on BBC Two, it’s not as if the schedule is packed full of programmes that couldn’t be shifted.

[Toby brown]

Closing cbbc is a big mistake

[mdta]

Could CBBC return to being a segment on maybe BBC Two mornings and early afternoons? It saves money on the transponder space CBBC and BBC Four operate on, allows that archive content once aimed at Four, to be on iPlayer, and frees up some repeat and simulcasts that BBC Two fills it's schedule with?

[Omnipresent]

BBC Radio, including Radio 4, has already had significant cuts. 

It's perhaps less noticeable as it's easy to fill the gaps with cheaper content.  For example, The Westminster Hour used to have a pre-recorded feature for the last 15 minutes.  Now the panel discussion continues for the full hour.  Similarly, Woman's Hour used to have a regular drama feature.  On the regular news programmes pre-recorded packages can be replaced with a discussion with a dial-a-quote contributor.   A lot of dedicated radio reporters, like the excellent Hugh Sykes, have left.

Over on Radio 1, there was a time when it never had any repeats, nor automation but this makes up most of the overnight output.  Newsbeat is now one bulletin across Radio 1, 1Xtra and Asian Network.  Even before COVID-19, outside broadcasts have been scaled back.

[RDJ]

I think it’s a big mistake losing CBBC. To maintain the longevity of viewers sticking with the BBC, it has to serve them at all age groups. Dropping its linear channel is going to open it up to more competition from rivals and therefore lose any potential future BBC viewership.
It was why I was so dead against closing BBC Three to lose the young adult audience. But as that’s come back they’ve done something far worse and removing the linear option for older children.
A big mistake if you ask me.

[bbctvtechop]

...Consolidating the news channel and BBC World News (though preserving the ability for the UK to opt out) is hardly a surprise...

Cue weekly "BBC pays journalists and technicians MILLIONS to SIT AROUND DOING NOTHING WAITING FOR BREAKING NEWS" stories. To have the true ability to opt out any time, you still need a presenter, producer, entire gallery and studio crew, makeup artists, etc etc etc - as well as a maintained, functioning, turned on studio - on standby. You may as well utilise those resources to, err, broadcast a separate channel. Unless there will be UK focused opt outs at specific, regular times of the day - which still requires scheduled crews, talent and studios to be paid for, and reduces you ability to cover the news outside of those scheduled hours. 

...We watch lots of CBBC programmes - from Horrible Histories to Deadly 60 - but back-to-back on demand rather than on a curated channel. It's just the way the world works now and how media is consumed... 

How did you initially discover these shows, though? Through a trailer or watching them on linear TV to begin with? How would that happen if there is no "shop window" to tell you these shows exist when you're just starting to transition between CBeebies and CBBC content? 

To be honest, it would be hard, especially for me to imagine CBeebies without CBBC (on TV). If CBBC was merged with CBeebies, it would personally make more sense.

In what way does it make sense that at 4pm a 13 year old is forced to watch In The Night Garden or a 1 year old is forced to watch Blue Peter? 

...The changes to BBC News seem rational and will finally give it some certainty rather than the awkward kind-of-merging-but-trying-to-pretend-it-isn’t style they’ve been doing. I think it will be a better service for UK viewers...

You're a producer on this new super merged News Channel. On the same day as a mass elementary school shooting in the US, there is an unprecedented storm killing hundreds in India and the Prime Minister is ousted from his seat by his MPs after Partygate. Which story do you fill the next 3 hours with? How does that benefit both UK and international audiences? 

...this same [squeezing value for money] thought process needs to be made for every local radio station, every podcast, and anything that isn’t a core service. And if this sounds harsh - it’s what nearly every private company has to do. I’m really pleased that the person at the top seems to have this mindset too.

The BBC is essentially the only Public Service Broadcaster left in the UK. It should be doing things which get criticised for not being value for money. The value of their services shouldn't only be judged on how much audience it gets or how expensive it was, but on what cultural contribution it makes to society and how unique it is in the broadcasting landscape, balanced of course with the cost and reach. 

...if anything has to be cut, surely BBC Alba and BBC Scotland are more niche than something like CBBC?

Yes. But, as above, niche Is what the BBC as the last true PSB on the UK *should* be doing.

Radio 4 has such an excessively high budget compared to all other radio that it seems crazy it’s continually overlooked for cuts.

It has a very loyal listener base who would make the campaign to save 6 music seem small if major cuts were proposed.

Not even suggesting major cuts, I don’t think it should be immune from even small cuts the way it seems to be. A good start would be to simulcast World Service overnight

The World Service is already simulcast on R4 overnight. And I believe R4 is the most PSB thing the BBC does. This is a TV forum so I'll be brief, but can you tell me any other UK radio station which had a daily soap opera, or dramas, or comedy shows? What, do you think, is the reason for that?

[natashajacobs]

World Service is on for four or so hours, I mean the whole night. I agree it is very relevant to the PSB remit with what it does. But, in my opinion, this doesn’t mean it should be immune from cuts. Someone else has stated that some cuts on live programming on R4 have been made, I think this is a good thing, it shouldn’t be allowed to go on as before when every other service including Local news and radio is cutting back, another very PSB service. And, if we are to believe what we have heard today, Bitesize will also be cut back a bit too. Also PSB.

[Col87]

Getting rid of CBBC is going to be a massive mistake. Yes it has live presentation and a studio but it already done on a very tight budget and the studio is shared with Newsround. I believe the live links are only during peak times the week as well with weekends either been pre records or no presentation at all. What presenters are they usually work on other shows for CBBC as well. So getting rid of CBBC is going to be even more pointless from when BBC Three as it will make very little in savings. It’s also something the BBC should be concentrating on more not getting rid of it considering the only broadcaster making PSB children content.

BBC Four I think is very easy to get rid off providing they keep a Red button stream so things like proms concerts Glastonbury can continue on linear TV. Top of the pops repeats can go to BBC Two.

[DTV]

...Consolidating the news channel and BBC World News (though preserving the ability for the UK to opt out) is hardly a surprise...

Cue weekly "BBC pays journalists and technicians MILLIONS to SIT AROUND DOING NOTHING WAITING FOR BREAKING NEWS" stories. To have the true ability to opt out any time, you still need a presenter, producer, entire gallery and studio crew, makeup artists, etc etc etc - as well as a maintained, functioning, turned on studio - on standby. You may as well utilise those resources to, err, broadcast a separate channel. Unless there will be UK focused opt outs at specific, regular times of the day - which still requires scheduled crews, talent and studios to be paid for, and reduces you ability to cover the news outside of those scheduled hours.

This is one of my big questions about the supposed potential ability to opt. Either they are planning to have this opt-out team on standby all the time, in which case why not bother just having a permanent UK opt out from say 0900-1800, or they are expecting the opt to basically only amount to pre-planned events like budgets or local elections, in which case you just end up with running orders that are either too-UK for global audiences, too-international for UK audiences or an unsatisfactory smudge that satisfies neither.

As the plans stand, they are reducing BBC News to two studios (one of which will only be used for an hour a day), which will likely mean a clear reduction in production staff, as well as allowing a further reduction in the presenter pool. Doing that represents meaningful cuts. As you say, maintaining a stand-by crew for a semi-regular opt-out is not just a waste of money (when you could use them full-time), but invalidates a large part of the cuts. Which is exactly why I suspect that the opt-out will be used incredibly rarely and the new channel will be a crappy compromise that doesn't really work as a domestic or international news channel.