Fire at Bilsdale TV/Radio Mast

[Inspector Sands]

It states UHF so they're for TV. I'm assuming the non PSB muxes which aren't available by satellite?

Might be for all of the MUXs, either to free up the need for satellite or as a backup.

I wonder if they're planning on extending the feeds that terminate in the original Bilsdale site to the Quarry site?

[commseng]

Probably easier to treat the Quarry site as a standalone system, so any work at the main site can be carried out without fear of interrupting the temporary service.
If that means using off air Pontop Pike for now, although that wouldn't usually be the case, so be it. It is working, and will be gone before winter.

[Inspector Sands]

Probably easier to treat the Quarry site as a standalone system, so any work at the main site can be carried out without fear of interrupting the temporary service.
If that means using off air Pontop Pike for now, although that wouldn't usually be the case, so be it. It is working, and will be gone before winter.

Before winter? I know they have said the 2nd temporary mast is weather dependent, but they won't get it done before this winter surely?

[Steve in Pudsey]

from the planning application for the second temporary mast

This temporary mast in the quarry site is intended to be in place for a short period
of time and has been deployed as an emergency measure in response to the loss
of coverage. The quarry site mast is not designed to be safely installed over the
winter months.

[Inspector Sands]

The quarry site mast is not designed to be safely installed over the
winter months.

Surely it's been installed? Or does that mean it's not designed to be there over the winter?

[IanJRedman]

I think it's saying the mast isn't suitable for the depths of winter, presumably because of the exposed location? Looking at the photos on mb21, it appears the guy wires are simply weighed down with large concrete blocks. Not sure if this has anything to do with it.

[Spencer]

I think it's saying the mast isn't suitable for the depths of winter, presumably because of the exposed location? Looking at the photos on mb21, it appears the guy wires are simply weighed down with large concrete blocks. Not sure if this has anything to do with it.

You’d hope they were tethered to them in some way.

[Markymark]

It states UHF so they're for TV. I'm assuming the non PSB muxes which aren't available by satellite?

Might be for all of the MUXs, either to free up the need for satellite or as a backup.

They can't be using UHF off air to obtain COM 7 (it's a national SFN). That's either being delivered by satellite (I don't think it is, and if so the delay would mess up the SFN anyway ?) or by splicing into the BT fibres going to the original site (More likely)

[tedjrr]

It states UHF so they're for TV. I'm assuming the non PSB muxes which aren't available by satellite?

Might be for all of the MUXs, either to free up the need for satellite or as a backup.

They can't be using UHF off air to obtain COM 7 (it's a national SFN). That's either being delivered by satellite (I don't think it is, and if so the delay would mess up the SFN anyway ?) or by splicing into the BT fibres going to the original site (More likely)

It states UHF so they're for TV. I'm assuming the non PSB muxes which aren't available by satellite?

Might be for all of the MUXs, either to free up the need for satellite or as a backup.

They can't be using UHF off air to obtain COM 7 (it's a national SFN). That's either being delivered by satellite (I don't think it is, and if so the delay would mess up the SFN anyway ?) or by splicing into the BT fibres going to the original site (More likely)

I'd imagine that, as with DAB, there's buffering at each site and release against a precise time reference. In this case a satellite feeed would work, and possibly feeds all the sites?

[Markymark]

I'm pretty sure COM 7 is routinely fed to the 25 sites by fibre. Unlike the three national DAB muxes, which are satellite, (though major key sites are fibre) If the satellite feed fails the non fibre backed up sites shut down to avoid corrupting the SFN

[AndrewP]

Unlike the three national DAB muxes, which are satellite

I don't want to derail the thread, but why are those and the BBC's MW services fed by satellite? I presume their FM and LW service are fed by fibre, as their pips are accurate.

[technologist]

It’s cheap,and reliable to feed by satellite … hence BBC local radio and MW are fed that way
As well as DAB …with its lots of sites
BBC NICAM takes a few ms to code but then say 150 ms to encapsulate the E1 into IP …
So the pips may not be as accurate as you think !

[Markymark]

Unlike the three national DAB muxes, which are satellite

I don't want to derail the thread, but why are those and the BBC's MW services fed by satellite? I presume their FM and LW service are fed by fibre, as their pips are accurate.

The DAB muxes are fed by satellite, because the smaller sites are not economic, or even possible, to feed by fibre. (They can't be off air fed from a main station of course :-) ). MW transmitters, cheaper for the smaller sites, than installing fibre. (Remember ISDN and other copper based data services are disappearing too)

[commseng]

Like many UHF or VHF transmitters, the MW ones tend to be in tricky to reach sites, not usually with good connectivity to any telecoms network.
To provide one circuit for mono audio for local radio makes it expensive, so satellite works well as a delivery method.
The bandwidth that TV or several stereo radio stations require is economically much more viable to put circuits into main UHF / VHF sites.

[Markymark]

Like many UHF or VHF transmitters, the MW ones tend to be in tricky to reach sites, not usually with good connectivity to any telecoms network.
To provide one circuit for mono audio for local radio makes it expensive, so satellite works well as a delivery method.
The bandwidth that TV or several stereo radio stations require is economically much more viable to put circuits into main UHF / VHF sites.

In fact the same fibre circuits that carry Freeview to the main sites, also now carry the BBC's national NICAM distribution. Where the FM transmitter is not co-sited with a TV transmitter (Holme Moss, North Hessary Tor, etc) then there's a short microwave hop from the TV transmitter