technologist post_id=13377 time=1621440644 user_id=1158 Wrote:joshuanesbit post_id=13338 time=1621426109 user_id=1556 Wrote:.....................Are the pips still run mechanically from the basement at BBC BH? ........................Finally the PIps has been electronic for ages .... Out of interest, just to let you know that the Greenwich Time Signal (pips) were generated at the Greenwich Observatory and then moved to Herstmonceux in Sussex. The signal was sent via a landline, and was inverted - it was a continuous tone, with gaps where the pips would be every 15 minutes.
This was in order that a failure of the line would be indicated by lack of tone, which the other way around would be the normal situation.
Back at LBH they were inverted back to the feed as broadcast.
Bizarrely we used to send the GTS back to Greenwich by landline - that fed speakers which could be heard at the meridian line at the Observatory. Talk about sending coals to Newcastle..
That changed in the 1990s to an atomic clock in one of the apparatus rooms in the basement which also had two feeds of GPS.
So basically there have never been mechanical clocks generating the GTS in LBH.
commseng post_id=13998 time=1621680820 user_id=1125 Wrote:technologist post_id=13377 time=1621440644 user_id=1158 Wrote:joshuanesbit post_id=13338 time=1621426109 user_id=1556 Wrote:.....................Are the pips still run mechanically from the basement at BBC BH? ........................Finally the PIps has been electronic for ages .... Out of interest, just to let you know that the Greenwich Time Signal (pips) were generated at the Greenwich Observatory and then moved to Herstmonceux in Sussex. The signal was sent via a landline, and was inverted - it was a continuous tone, with gaps where the pips would be every 15 minutes.
This was in order that a failure of the line would be indicated by lack of tone, which the other way around would be the normal situation.
Back at LBH they were inverted back to the feed as broadcast.
Bizarrely we used to send the GTS back to Greenwich by landline - that fed speakers which could be heard at the meridian line at the Observatory. Talk about sending coals to Newcastle..
That changed in the 1990s to an atomic clock in one of the apparatus rooms in the basement which also had two feeds of GPS.
So basically there have never been mechanical clocks generating the GTS in LBH.
but if the pips are electronic, does it just mean that they are fired by a DJ or someone similar at a certain time, or they are always automated to land at TOTH, regardless if the schedule is running late?
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joshuanesbit post_id=14015 time=1621686142 user_id=1556 Wrote:but if the pips are electronic, does it just mean that they are fired by a DJ or someone similar at a certain time, or they are always automated to land at TOTH, regardless if the schedule is running late?
They are 'spat out' at 00, 15, 30, and 45 mins past the hour. It's up to whoever is driving the desk running the appropriate station output to have the source faded up. Occasionally on R4 they've gone out in error at xx:15mins, because the R4 continuity announcer has left them faded up from xx:00
The pips always happen whatever any individual programme or network is doing. The represent the exact 15, 30, 45 or 00 minutes of the hour.
They are only under the control of the engineers, they should never ever be played off a recording, as that would not be accurate.
The advent of digital systems has removed some of that accuracy as delivered to home, as has been discussed many times.
But listening to FM or AM it should be correct - certainly to the national services.
There used to be a button on the network continuity desks to select GTS - that put it live on the output, and there was an automatic pulse to cancel it afterwards - if that failed then you would hear pips again at 15 minutes past, which did happen.
It could also be selected as an outside source to any desk, and was how local radio did it, selecting it via the local radio switchers, which would also be how shared programmes and out of hours network programming was carried.
Markymark post_id=14024 time=1621687818 user_id=1078 Wrote:joshuanesbit post_id=14015 time=1621686142 user_id=1556 Wrote:but if the pips are electronic, does it just mean that they are fired by a DJ or someone similar at a certain time, or they are always automated to land at TOTH, regardless if the schedule is running late?
They are 'spat out' at 00, 15, 30, and 45 mins past the hour. It's up to whoever is driving the desk running the appropriate station output to have the source faded up. Occasionally on R4 they've gone out in error at xx:15mins, because the R4 continuity announcer has left them faded up from xx:00
so it's optional whether to have them at xx:15, xx:30 etc depending on whether something is running through that time?
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They are optional at any time. They were used at at xx:30 on Radio 1 and 2 when the two stations used to opt in and out of each other at half past the hour. They were a good pause to cleanly opt in and out from
It's quite rare now to hear them at all on R1 or 2 now, and anywhere else at anything other than on the hour
Although that caused its own problems because Radio 1 pips were louder than Radio 2 pips, so switching during the pips could cause the level to change on the last few pips.
http://www.orbem.co.uk/cons/consd_2.htm
Write that down in your copybook now
A big user of GTS was the World Service, which would have transmitter switching and programme feeds switching every 15 minutes.
I don't know if they used them on the 15 or 45 minutes past the hour.
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And here's a once only appearance of the GTS on an ILR station, Southern Sound Eastbourne's opening broadcast. Must have been that Herstmonceux was in the area that prompted them to do it. I wonder if the BBC ever found out!?
https://www.localradioarchive.co.uk/sout...ening1.mp3
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Any talk about broadcast delays isn't complete without this video - the audio delay between Big Ben in real life and Big Ben on Radio 4
https://youtu.be/5dwUWtyRP4c
I remember a similar thing when I was in Hyde Park once when Radio 2 had a live concert happening from the park. I was a fair way across the park from the concert and could hear it on FM a long time before I could through my ears
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Markymark post_id=14078 time=1621702357 user_id=1078 Wrote:And here's a once only appearance of the GTS on an ILR station, Southern Sound Eastbourne's opening broadcast. Must have been that Herstmonceux was in the area that prompted them to do it. I wonder if the BBC ever found out!?
https://www.localradioarchive.co.uk/sout...ening1.mp3 Chris Moyles has the GTS to open his show every morning. Presumably recorded, but I'm sure I've heard it pop up seemingly accidently at other times.
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Inspector Sands post_id=14089 time=1621704869 user_id=1003 Wrote:Markymark post_id=14078 time=1621702357 user_id=1078 Wrote:And here's a once only appearance of the GTS on an ILR station, Southern Sound Eastbourne's opening broadcast. Must have been that Herstmonceux was in the area that prompted them to do it. I wonder if the BBC ever found out!?
https://www.localradioarchive.co.uk/sout...ening1.mp3 Chris Moyles has the GTS to open his show every morning. Presumably recorded, but I'm sure I've heard it pop up seemingly accidently at other times.
I'm aware he used to muck about with the GTS on his Radio 1 show?
Presumably then the pips are not 'BBC property'?
There was a feature about them not so long ago (the last decade or so) on Radio 4's Saturday Live. There they claimed BBC rules dictated that all 6 pips could not be broadcast outside of the actual 00,15,30,45 times in case it misled the punters, so the programme only broadcast 5 of them. It wasn't April 1st!
Quote:Please note that use of Big Ben or the GTS must be cleared with the Head of Presentation in advance. The GTS cannot be used in its entirety; a maximum of 3 pips is allowable and this must not include the final long pip.
http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/commissioning...r-2015.pdf
Write that down in your copybook now
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Steve in Pudsey post_id=14101 time=1621707061 user_id=942 Wrote:Quote:Please note that use of Big Ben or the GTS must be cleared with the Head of Presentation in advance. The GTS cannot be used in its entirety; a maximum of 3 pips is allowable and this must not include the final long pip.
http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/commissioning...r-2015.pdf
Ha, thanks Steve, there we are!
Which is all rather a moot point, considering via digital platforms, the pips are not accurate.
Although the sound of them still causes me to prick up my ears, and expect to hear the news.
Perhaps that's their value?
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commseng post_id=14073 time=1621700689 user_id=1125 Wrote:A big user of GTS was the World Service, which would have transmitter switching and programme feeds switching every 15 minutes.
I don't know if they used them on the 15 or 45 minutes past the hour.
In the early 70s I recall them being used at 4:15 on R1 and R2, when R2 would opt out of Wogan's R1 afternoon show for Wagoners Walk
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