Farewell...

[Scrotnig]

Rob isn't closing the forum because of us, he's closing it because of people outside of the forum.

Let's not just brush it off as completely that.   Whilst it is a key factor we all need to look at our own behaviour too and how we can ensure those running sites can enjoy them as members too, rather than just constantly having to be in moderation mode.  I know I've given Rob headaches at times over the last 18 months and I know those who've repeatedly reported posts everytime they see something they disagree with or view as "political" will have done so too.  

It's also very clear that although it came from a good place and was with the best intentions the pages of discussions yesterday about people taking over the forum, buying it off Rob, why isn't he just getting the mods to run it etc. was somewhat disrespectful to the decision Rob had clearly communicated too considering he had never put that option on the table and people were essentially running with it for pages without considering Rob's views at all.  For it to come up again after Rob had clearly reiterated his position wasn't great too, and it's incredibly sad Rob doesn't feel able to be a part of the community he has provided so much for in it's final few days.


A bit worried though Rob has said he is going to raise a glass "to each and everyone of us" on Moday considering that's over 1500 members.   That's a hefty bar bill (that Donate button below will help with that) so it's a good job his radio show isn't until Saturday!  

I think...I *hope*...I haven't given Rob any problems. Other than perhaps my posts being deathly boring! For which I'd like to apologise.

I have always been supportive of his great efforts here.

---

I also feel compelled to add - since I have a good idea of how Rob must be feeling right now, given my own experiences running forums over the years - that I hope Rob realises that the people that have pushed him to this action, are not the measure of him. I hope Rob realises that his efforts in providing this forum for the time it's been up are appreciated by most for what they are...first class.

Never think these toxic types have the measure of you, (this applies to anyone and any situation in life), they do not. The people that matter have the measure of you.

Another thing to bear in mind - well-run forums will *always* end up with a "gang" of toxic people hanging around the periphery, simply because a well run site sometimes has to make difficult decisions and these decisions will upset some and trigger the toxic behaviour. It is THEY that have the problem, not the site, its owner or its staff. Anyone hoping to be a "spiritual successor" to this site needs to be aware of this.

I have seen this play out too many times for it not to make me deeply, deeply angry because it is ALWAYS good, caring people - usually providing their services for free - who have their life turned upside down and their health wrecked by these types. I will see them in Hell (or other suitable purgatory destination of your choice) for the way they carry on.

Sorry to ramble and bang on about it, but it is absolutely completely out of order. Actually, on second thoughts I'm not sorry at all.

[Jake]

Thanks for all your hard work Rob. It was a huge thing to take on, and I wish you all the best.

[Markymark]

I think Digital Spy will be ok, its better now they have got rid of the general discussion, I will just probably stick to that now, but if there is another site that members from here go to I will sign up, will wait a couple of months though to see which one is more popular

Yes, but the point is for the owners Hearst it must be increasingly difficult to moderate. If someone kicks off with with a legally dodgy rant, it's Hearst who become the 'publishers' ?

That said all the noise and time wasting crap is more or less concentrated in the GB News and LBC threads, so I just treat them as 'DMZ' zones.

DS still remains about the only viable place to talk about radio, and in Broadcasting there are some fantastic tangents that pop up. The TPTV thread is a good one to watch out for those. Some of the best threads that develop are often ones started by someone asking a totally inane question.

One thing all forums suffer from is someone diving in a starting a thread on something that's been discussed to death many times before, and for years.

If I had a pound for every time someone has posted 'Why can't I get my local news on BBC 1 HD ?'

[Ash101]

DS still remains about the only viable place to talk about radio, and in Broadcasting there are some fantastic tangents that pop up. The TPTV thread is a good one to watch out for those. Some of the best threads that develop are often ones started by someone asking a totally inane question.

Agree with this & actually radio has a lot of cross over with the stuff we all talk about and enjoy(ed?) in this place and the old one.

I think it's a shame if we cannot incorporate a radio category to maybe change things up in the future.
(Yes I know Metropol has one, and I have posted there myself once or twice, but it doesn't get the same level of general radio chit chat as DS does).

[maplaptop]

Note that DS has expanded to cover podcasts as well as radio in that area, Maybe could talk about Robs show there now IMAO.

[Brekkie]

I'm amazed the DS Forums have survived through all the change of ownerships - not because of any issues within them but generally speaking most forums integrated into larger media sites have just vanished over the years as social media grew. Personally I think the forums are much better than they used to be, but I am very selective in how I use them nowadays.

[Rob]

A bit worried though Rob has said he is going to raise a glass "to each and everyone of us" on Monday considering that's over 1500 members.   That's a hefty bar bill (that Donate button below will help with that) so it's a good job his radio show isn't until Saturday!  

Radio show is already recorded and ready to go.

[Roger Darthwell]

A bit worried though Rob has said he is going to raise a glass "to each and everyone of us" on Monday considering that's over 1500 members.   That's a hefty bar bill (that Donate button below will help with that) so it's a good job his radio show isn't until Saturday!  

Radio show is already recorded and ready to go.

This is absolutely brilliant! I really really love your radio show! It's even better than Radio 1

[RegularCapital]

I'm posting this on behalf of someone I know who visits here quite frequently but is not a registered member and really wants to say goodbye to TV Live Forum (he can't register, as registration is closed).

Disclaimer: The following message is not by me, and I don't reflect the opinions and views in this message:


Hey everyone, RandomMe/The Testcardiologist here. I am currently in the middle of a YouTube crisis pending resolution, having sent a counter-notification more than a week ago, and waiting for a good outcome to see my content restored.

Having first discovered TV pres websites and being glued to them like a drug addict in 2005 (first with TV & Radio Bits, then The TV Room, then TVARK, then APFS, and so on) I witnessed the rise and fall of many of these pres websites, including TV Forum. I tried joining TV Forum as soon as the shutdown announcement was made, but somehow the account was rejected, and tried again under TV Live Forum when the shutdown was announced, but given a number of forum issues I didn't register, and there wasn't a user rush at closing time.

Having been on online forums (mostly Toonzone/Anime Superhero) since 2012, I've seen the arrival of the "new kids on the block". those who don't mature and don't have decent opinions, and were raised almost entirely in the smartphone and YouTube/social media age (I only discovered YouTube a year after it started). While I was happy to have seen the last year of APFS in its entirety, including the forums (that's how I discovered the Channel 7 Thailand lightspots), it just sucks to see that the TV presentation community has become like other communities that have been infested by the "kiddies", bullies and people doing nothing but just post nonsense especially on YouTube and make idiosyncratic comments. This has been exacerbated at the greater scheme, with the rise of new social movements and people supporting ideas on paper without doing anything. Won't mention any of that due to personal trigger warnings, but social media is becoming a toxic rabbit hole. In the past couple of years I have lost but regained some of my sanity due to factors beyond my control.


I am aware that Rob Francis is shutting down the forums due to both internal and external reasons, and people like me have been past the same situations, IRL and on social media. And I am considering cutting my influence in the general TV community, and related ones, because the more kids they gather, the more toxic their communities get. Firstly I would like to thank Rob Francis for the first and final time. A website like TV Live was never my cup of tea, as it was more like one of those TV Room-esque websites (and by that I mean the pre-2011 TV Room). To the admins of TVARK, good luck on their long recovery (SPARK recently didn't work). To RegularCapital (to whom I am sending this message on my behalf) and Kunst, good luck, to Mark McMillan, who introduced me to alternate histories (now I am interested in the genre in its entirety rather than just alternate British media timelines), grateful memories, to Robert Williams, whose content has been integrated to his Des and Mick website (and still gutted that the old The TV Room and TV & Radio Bits have been excluded from Internet Archive), massive thanks for introducing me to a sense of televised Anglophilia in the summer of 2005, to Asa Hicks, congratulations, because running a TV pres site was hard for him, many years later for the forum, to my closest British friend who was never on either of the two forums, Applemask, here's to more joint works, and to everyone who has helped shape the British TV pres scene, a massive thank you to everyone involved. While YouTube isn't fixing the issue of my channels, my TV pres channel The Testcardiologist (who at suspension time had a little over three million views or twice those of my main channel), when it returns (I hope so) will be heavily reduced because other users have exploited my work in general, and that's another reason why I plan to leave the TV community in general. And a final message to the bullies: they need proper education, a proper worldview, and most importantly a life. And now it's time to switch off the television set and as the TMF ABC closedown mocks said, remove the plug from the wall socket.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4G5hKFY46Y


End of message

[MrBiggieSMLZ]

I'm really gonna miss posting my thoughts on TV Pres, and I may certainly miss seeing the great mocks on this site too. Hopefully, there's another place on the internet for presentation mocks...

[Omnipresent]

I can only echo what others have said, I'm really sorry to see the site close, but entirely understand the reasons for doing so.  Sometimes you need to just cut things out of your life and move on.  I will miss everyone's contributions.

One of the best pieces of advice I ever received was "Don't listen to criticism from people you'd never take advice from." 

People who are content with their lives have neither the time nor inclination to go about criticising others, let alone pursue online vendettas.  If someone is criticising you, it's because you're doing more than them, not less.

[Luke_w]

Thank you for running this site in the time it has lasted, Rob. I respect your decision, and wish you all the best for the future,

Luke

[KK!]

I have generally lurked on this forum, but am sad to see it driven to closure. Thanks for all your hard work in running it Rob, and the untold hours it must have taken up.

[Andrew]

Do feel like the age of the Message Boards has died, Even Digital Spy is struggling to keep there userbase from posting political stuff 24/7. I can see them closing down there message boards soon actually.

I think that is true, as I've said many times about sites like TV Ark etc, they've been overtaken by social media and other platforms. 

Why build and configure and host a web forum when you can use Reddit or Discord etc? Why host a website of video of old TV when YouTube etc will host it and give you a wider audience?

It's nothing really to do with what people's views are, it's about the ending of web 1.0

There's also a quality gap, to get a own hosted site looking and working as well as the big boys takes some talent and time. Rob and Asa had both and made quality products (although to be honest I never got on with the most recent incarnation of TVLF). Anything less than that and people aren't interested, they're used to the slickness of Facebook, Twitter etc

Whereas you are right that the internet does seem to have moved on from the era of message boards, I’m not entirely sure that is necessarily a good thing. I think message boards still work best for the sort of slow moving  detailed discussions we have here

Social media can be very fast moving and all about shallow quick posts about the here and now

Having to actually sign in to a specific website tends to lead to better quality discussions as well than something like Twitter

Those of us who are a bit older probably prefer old fashioned looking sites with quality discussion rather than fancy sites that are constantly updating to the latest web trend but have less content that is less readable each time (such as the recent trend of having lots of white space, less text etc)

Hopefully when the dust settles a natural successor will become apparent. The successor needs to know what they are taking on though. I’m dubious about any forum that was created within 5 minutes of Rob’s announcement. It smacks of someone wanting the prestige of having their name above the door and probably getting bored after a few months rather than someone actually wanting to be a long term solution.

[m91]

I think that is true, as I've said many times about sites like TV Ark etc, they've been overtaken by social media and other platforms. 

Why build and configure and host a web forum when you can use Reddit or Discord etc? Why host a website of video of old TV when YouTube etc will host it and give you a wider audience?

It's nothing really to do with what people's views are, it's about the ending of web 1.0

There's also a quality gap, to get a own hosted site looking and working as well as the big boys takes some talent and time. Rob and Asa had both and made quality products (although to be honest I never got on with the most recent incarnation of TVLF). Anything less than that and people aren't interested, they're used to the slickness of Facebook, Twitter etc

Whereas you are right that the internet does seem to have moved on from the era of message boards, I’m not entirely sure that is necessarily a good thing. I think message boards still work best for the sort of slow moving  detailed discussions we have here

Social media can be very fast moving and all about shallow quick posts about the here and now

Having to actually sign in to a specific website tends to lead to better quality discussions as well than something like Twitter

Those of us who are a bit older probably prefer old fashioned looking sites with quality discussion rather than fancy sites that are constantly updating to the latest web trend but have less content that is less readable each time (such as the recent trend of having lots of white space, less text etc)

Hopefully when the dust settles a natural successor will become apparent. The successor needs to know what they are taking on though. I’m dubious about any forum that was created within 5 minutes of Rob’s announcement. It smacks of someone wanting the prestige of having their name above the door and probably getting bored after a few months rather than someone actually wanting to be a long term solution.

Agree with your sentiments here, and this was my reason for setting up TVPF. 

Thread here.

I've done it because I feel like it is a good natural successor in 2022. I don't want the honour of running a forum - but thought it would be good to set something up that looks half decent and would actually be usable.

I can't help but think that traditional forums will always come to an end, whether it takes a week, a year or 10 years.