Farewell...

[Joe]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyxm8cjMSCo

[Brekkie]

It's worth remembering this place didn't take off because it was announced eight minutes after Asa stated TV Forum was closing, it took off because Rob was a trusted and respected member of the community and it was a natural evolution for both the forum and for Rob's TV Live site.

Frankly anybody opening a forum on the day they conceive it raises a few red flags - it needs a bit of consideration first and testing and you really need to think about what you want it to be, the tone it should take and the time and finances it may take, plus as we've seen the potential personal impact it may have. It's often not as fun as it seems switching from member to moderator.

[LTSC1980]

It’s a shame to close the TV Live Forum, but it has been a pleasure to join the discussion.

I would wish Clean Feed luck with setting up a new forum, but they've blocked every single TV Live Twitter account, as well as all my personal ones...

I’ve been blocked as well

[Matthew]

Discord seems like the best option. No money is necessary, lots of bots exist that can be integrated, custom emojis, easy to have name colours and blue ticks

[Dogorilla]

I think Discord has a very different feel to it than conventional forums. It's more of an instant messaging platform and, though it does have an option to reply directly to old posts, most conversations on it tend to just happen over a short period of time before moving on to a different topic. I personally prefer the more laid-back feel of forums like this one. Also, you can't read the posts in a server without actually joining it, and I think a forum like this should be open for people to find and read without needing to sign up.

That said, I'm not sure I'll necessarily move over to the next place, wherever that may be. I've enjoyed my time here and I'll stay until the closure, but I'm not a massively active part of the community and don't really feel the need to join another website to continue the discussions on here. So if people do decide a Discord server is the best way forward then don't let me dissuade you. But if you stick with a traditional forum, at least I'll be able to lurk for a while and possibly change my mind one day

[SuperSajuuk]

I think Discord has a very different feel to it than conventional forums. It's more of an instant messaging platform and, though it does have an option to reply directly to old posts, most conversations on it tend to just happen over a short period of time before moving on to a different topic. I personally prefer the more laid-back feel of forums like this one. Also, you can't read the posts in a server without actually joining it, and I think a forum like this should be open for people to find and read without needing to sign up.

It’s true that Discord is more instant-messenger like, but it is trying to be more community-like, specifically the Threads allows you to have a preserved discussion thats easy to break off from the main thing. Many of the largest communities nowadays tend to have discord servers, they’re simply more accessible than the costs of a forum [£500 for this site is a lot of money!]

---

It's worth remembering this place didn't take off because it was announced eight minutes after Asa stated TV Forum was closing, it took off because Rob was a trusted and respected member of the community and it was a natural evolution for both the forum and for Rob's TV Live site.

Frankly anybody opening a forum on the day they conceive it raises a few red flags - it needs a bit of consideration first and testing and you really need to think about what you want it to be, the tone it should take and the time and finances it may take, plus as we've seen the potential personal impact it may have.  It's often not as fun as it seems switching from member to moderator.

Completely agreed. I even made a discord server last night but i don’t intend to invite anyone to it yet until i get a structure that looks decent, and for which others would actually approve of using. And if everyone wanted to join a different server [because it got the endorsement of Rob+the mods here], i’d end up deleting mine without incurring any cost. I don’t think very many people realise the cost implications of “just setting up a new forum”, it isn’t that easy and splinters the community for no reason.

[aaron_scotland]

I dont think Discord will work... isn't it more a chat room thing? Yes you can create separate rooms but how do you create threads? It will have too much of a noise to content ratio.

[i.h]

"old fart view" but the main issue with Discord is that it's entirely owned and operated by a single company, you operate on their terms, and as with most startups they're endlessly looking to "monetise" it. It already annoys me that too many dedicated forums have been cannibalised by discord "servers" and you have to faff around with creating an account and downloading software to get to it.

since it's private it isn't indexed by search engines and is not useful as any sort of historical record (as the TVF and soon TVLF archives are)

[SuperSajuuk]

I dont think Discord will work... isn't it more a chat room thing? Yes you can create separate rooms but how do you create threads? It will have too much of a noise to content ratio.

Its as simple as clicking a button in the app, or on mobile, by long pressing a msg and then “create thread”. I’m on mobile at the moment so i can’t show it properly from the desktop view, but its pretty easy to make a thread on a discord server.

"old fart view" but the main issue with Discord is that it's entirely owned and operated by a single company, you operate on their terms, and as with most startups they're endlessly looking to "monetise" it. It already annoys me that too many dedicated forums have been cannibalised by discord "servers" and you have to faff around with creating an account and downloading software to get to it.

since it's private it isn't indexed by search engines and is not useful as any sort of historical record (as the TVF and soon TVLF archives are)

The problem is, hosting an archive website of a forum still costs someone money, both for the hosting provider [on a monthly or annual basis] and the regular domain fee once a year. So while Rob will be archiving this site, it’s still going to cost him money to keep it in its archived state. Eventually, the site will vanish when he chooses to stop paying the hosting and domain bills, and then the data is lost anyway, other than via the wayback machine, which may or may not capture everything.

Ultimately, i don’t mind where the community ends up, but it should be in a place endorsed by this sites’ administrators/moderators.

[i.h]

The problem is, hosting an archive website of a forum still costs someone money, both for the hosting provider [on a monthly or annual basis] and the regular domain fee once a year. So while Rob will be archiving this site, it’s still going to cost him money to keep it in its archived state. Eventually, the site will vanish when he chooses to stop paying the hosting and domain bills, and then the data is lost anyway, other than via the wayback machine, which may or may not capture everything.

Point is, there's freedom and choice in all of this. If Rob were to find that the bills were excessive (and as a static archive with lower usage it might not be) then he can export the data and offer it to a future forum, he could upload it himself to archive.org or have it crawl the website, etc. There are options that discord does not have, and probably won't because long running discussion forums were not what it was designed for.

[LI4M]

Indeed! Rob has been kind enough to bankroll this place for us for the last couple of years and seemingly has had to endure personal abuse for is troubles. But, sadly, that's the modern internet!

In the end, he owes us nothing - If he wants to provide a read only archive then great. If not, then Archive.org will have to do - and we should be grateful that that exists.

My hope is that wherever we all end up, Rob is able to enjoy discussing TV presentation, as he did before.

[Michael Power]

Point is, there's freedom and choice in all of this. If Rob were to find that the bills were excessive (and as a static archive with lower usage it might not be) then he can export the data and offer it to a future forum, he could upload it himself to archive.org or have it crawl the website, etc. There are options that discord does not have, and probably won't because long running discussion forums were not what it was designed for.

I’m willing to help host any form of archive for TVLF, or integrate the existing posts over to my forum to make any form of transition easy after the August 31 date. (I really hope I’m not sounding pushy or naggy with any of this by the way, just wanting to help out the community in any way I can. :-) )

[Renap]

Discord certainly isn't the way to go. You can't archive them and if you delete a channel, it's gone for good.

Eventually something better than Discord will appear and people will flock to that as well. Better having something self-hosted that can be archived.

Certainly looking like Clean Feed is probably going to be the best option around, as much as the twitter account blocks are annoying.

[Scrotnig]

Discord won't work as a replacement for a forum.
People who like forums generally won't like Discord.

Forums on free hosts like Proboard and suchlike - forget it. Not viable.

You need a proper server and some forum software (MyBB is used here) and if it's going to work and be successful, setting it up and making it do what people want is going to take weeks and weeks of work.

No disrespect but it strikes me that some people have jumped in thinking they can grab the userbase in an instant. It doesn't work like that.

I am an experienced forum admin of 20 years standing. If I had the time I would do it gladly but I absolutely do not, I can barely fit in what I do now.

Anyone who's serious should be trying to see if Rob might consider giving or selling the current forum (database and files basically) as it should easily work on another server with another domain, with a condition that it be rebranded fully. These things aren't beyond the wit of man but require some technical knowledge, and of course Rob's willingness to hand it over.

If Rob didn't want to do that then the next best thing would be to get a copy of MyBB (it's free), get a *decent* web host, and spin up a new one, start from scratch like Rob did and aim for a similar 'vibe'.

All this Discourse / free hosted stuff, I'm really sorry but it's not going to be the way forward.

What I can tell you is, look at what Rob did when TVF closed because that's textbook for how it needs to be done again.

Apologies as I know most are well meaning.

Or - wait for Clean Feed but to be honest the stories of them blocking people don't make me keen!

[LI4M]

You need a proper server and some forum software (MyBB is used here) and if it's going to work and be successful, setting it up and making it do what people want is going to take weeks and weeks of work.

No disrespect but it strikes me that some people have jumped in thinking they can grab the userbase in an instant. It doesn't work like that.

I am an experienced forum admin of 20 years standing. If I had the time I would do it gladly but I absolutely do not, I can barely fit in what I do now.

I have no experience of MyBB, though I'm not keen on the interface. 

My advice to whoever's site wins out in the end it avoid phpBB. I've operated forums on that software before.... and ended up in my local paper after it was was hacked by Russian bots that posted a bunch of 'saucy' pictures. I never did resolve the spam problem on that software.

Discourse (not discord) is, in my opinion, the way to go as it's newer, has a nice API and can handle live updates (like we used to have occasionally on launches in TVF). It's open source - but it's not just a bunch of php files that can be installed on any cheap hosting.

For my part, I have set up BoxBabble by installing discourse on a virtual private server with a host I've been using for a long time. While it's live for sign-up and comment now, lets call this a soft-launch/test transmission period, for the next week or so.

As for passing on the old content.... I'm not sure it's that simple anymore. I think whoever ends up playing host will have to start from scratch - either that or get express permission from every poster to re-publish their stuff (and potentially hold their personal data).