Tvam- Timeslot

[Markymark]

Were there not enough circuits around the country to have both TVam going to the transmitters and the first ITV programme going to the regional companies at the same time?

Could they have used the C4 distribution?

Well, C4's transmitters came on at about 08:00 hrs with their 'local' ETP 1s, and then these were switched to Charlotte St's pres output at 08:30 hrs, so they didn't.

C4's dist (rather like BBC 1 and 2) was pretty well a fixed affair, starting life in London and 'hard wired'

If you refer to the the drawing Fig 8/page 32 in IBA Tech Review 20 (linked up thread in here) it does indicate the national ITV dist network was used (otherwise the data bridging arrangements for Oracle would have been even more complex). It also shows TV-am five Macro Regional feeds that left the London BT tower. 'Net 1' was London/TVS/Anglia regions. There was probably a West/Wales Macro that left London on the Bristol/Cardiff/Plymouth leg, and the other three 'up country' on the LON/Brum/MCR spine. Don't forget TV-am's site at Knutsford that had links to Manchester to generate further macro regions northwards from there.

http://www.dgsys.co.uk/btmicrowave/sites/293.php

[Markymark]

That's not to say the 09:25 switch didn't ever go wrong!

https://youtu.be/AJExDkOJC0g

Yes I thought of that clip too. Although of course if it had been a problem with the switching then it would have been downstream of Granada so it was either finger trouble there, or he's listening to the output off-air.

Difficult to tell if he presses anything and sorts it or whether it just went right all by itself

The TVS jingle actually fits the awful Granada animation quite well

It does !

That clip generates no end of questions.

1: Why was TVS's local pres output being sent 'abroad'
2: Colin Weston heard the TVS audio too, so was the cock up within Granada Pres, (they had the audio from Network In faded up ?
3: Or was the problem at BT Manchester, and they had network audio still feeding Winter Hill (because that would have been the TV-am config)
4: If 3's answer is yes, then why is Colin Weston hearing 'off air' in his studio ?

[Steve in Pudsey]

Well, C4's transmitters came on at about 08:00 hrs with their 'local' ETP 1s, and then these were switched to Charlotte St's pres output at 08:30 hrs, so they didn't.

Sorry - I meant for the Engineering announcements simulcast. BT could have feed C4 dist to the ITV companies' incoming local ends as it was already on that circuit.

In fact - every region already had a feed of C4 on the station router!

[Markymark]

Well, C4's transmitters came on at about 08:00 hrs with their 'local' ETP 1s, and then these were switched to Charlotte St's pres output at 08:30 hrs, so they didn't.

Sorry - I meant for the Engineering announcements simulcast. BT could have feed C4 dist to the ITV companies' incoming local ends as it was already on that circuit.

In fact - every region already had a feed of C4 on the station router!

Yes, that's very true !! We need [mention]Bluecortina[/mention] help I think, I seem to recall anything 'C4' within the ITV companies was 'off limits' (politically, not technically) ?!

[commseng]

Still an issue in places where they are working for different companies, and although circuits come in to the same building and adjacent areas, you can't use somethings that are paid for by different firms!

[Steve in Pudsey]

But in this specific instance, this was an IBA broadcast outside of contract hours, so no real difference between fading up an existing feed of C4 as an outside source and putting up an IBA branded slide and music?

[Si-Co]

How did you deduce the apparent line switch was at 09:15:35, back timing from the schools clock starting at 09:29:00?

Yes - working backwards from there, Engineering Announcements also started at precisely 09:17.

That's not to say the 09:25 switch didn't ever go wrong!

https://youtu.be/AJExDkOJC0g

There’s been a bit of debate as to whether that recording is genuine. Normally the Granada “ident” would wipe to/reveal a still Granada caption, which didn’t happen here, hence a premature cut to Colin Weston. That’s enough to leave Colin looking surprised, and his joke “It’s me, you see!” would still make sense. What we don’t know is whether someone played around and added the TVS audio onto it later - and we never will know. Why would TVS (in sound or vision) be fed to Quay Street? There were no TVS programmes scheduled that morning (and possibly none at all that day).

[Markymark]

There’s been a bit of debate as to whether that recording is genuine. Normally the Granada “ident” would wipe to/reveal a still Granada caption, which didn’t happen here, hence a premature cut to Colin Weston. That’s enough to leave Colin looking surprised, and his joke “It’s me, you see!” would still make sense. What we don’t know is whether someone played around and added the TVS audio onto it later - and we never will know. Why would TVS (in sound or vision) be fed to Quay Street? There were no TVS programmes scheduled that morning (and possibly none at all that day).

Yes, indeed. I think it is genuine, but, rather like an aircraft accident, it was possibly the unfortunate cumulative result of multiple errors !

[Bluecortina]

How did you deduce the apparent line switch was at 09:15:35, back timing from the schools clock starting at 09:29:00?

Yes - working backwards from there, Engineering Announcements also started at precisely 09:17.

That's not to say the 09:25 switch didn't ever go wrong!

https://youtu.be/AJExDkOJC0g

There’s been a bit of debate as to whether that recording is genuine. Normally the Granada “ident” would wipe to/reveal a still Granada caption, which didn’t happen here, hence a premature cut to Colin Weston. That’s enough to leave Colin looking surprised, and his joke “It’s me, you see!” would still make sense. What we don’t know is whether someone played around and added the TVS audio onto it later - and we never will know. Why would TVS (in sound or vision) be fed to Quay Street? There were no TVS programmes scheduled that morning (and possibly none at all that day).

I obviously don’t know anything about the veracity of this clip but GPO/BT circuits were switched as required for a forthcoming event not to get rid of previous events. Is it possible TVS was incoming to Granada from a previous booking and was simply left there - even perhaps from the day before? A large company like Granada would likely have a number of incoming circuits available at any given time, one perhaps that Anthony David might be able to give more info about?

Each circuit switch was chargeable so the IBA/ITV companies tried to limit the number of switches throughout the day to keep costs down.

[Bluecortina]

Well, C4's transmitters came on at about 08:00 hrs with their 'local' ETP 1s, and then these were switched to Charlotte St's pres output at 08:30 hrs, so they didn't.

Yes.

Sorry - I meant for the Engineering announcements simulcast. BT could have feed C4 dist to the ITV companies' incoming local ends as it was already on that circuit.

In fact - every region already had a feed of C4 on the station router!

Yes, that's very true !! We need [mention]Bluecortina[/mention] help I think, I seem to recall anything 'C4' within the ITV companies was 'off limits' (politically, not technically) ?!

[Bluecortina]

Sorry - I meant for the Engineering announcements simulcast. BT could have feed C4 dist to the ITV companies' incoming local ends as it was already on that circuit.

In fact - every region already had a feed of C4 on the station router!

Yes, that's very true !! We need [mention]Bluecortina[/mention] help I think, I seem to recall anything 'C4' within the ITV companies was 'off limits' (politically, not technically) ?!

Yes.

[Bluecortina]

Double post..................

[Bluecortina]

Another double post, apologies.