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+--- Thread: Plans for BBC One HD (/showthread.php?tid=628)
Plans for BBC One HD - paul0363 - 27-01-2022
James2001 post_id=65414 time= user_id=956 Wrote:For STV - On Freesat the only HD version is STV West. Sky is fully regionalised and has the correct HD version for each region. This ties in with your observation!CCFG post_id=65413 time= user_id=1195 Wrote:James2001 post_id=65411 time= user_id=956 Wrote:The thing with sky is the need to have channel space on the satellite for all the regions, not the easiest thing to do. I don't think all the ITV HD regions are on Satellite for that reason.
Pretty sure they are. They don't have Channel Islands and Border in HD, but that's mainly because Channel HD and Border HD haven't launched yet. I'm pretty sure they can get it via Sky/Freesat via ITV London?
They have Border England in HD, but not Border Scotland. And only STV Glasgow in HD. The Edinburgh, Dundee and Aberdeen/Inverness versions are only SD. As has been said already, the Edinburgh and Dundee versions are in HD on Virgin.
Edit: Actually, a proper look shows all 4 STV regions are there, but all but the Glasgow are encrypted (I was only looking at FTA channels at first, which is why I didn't see them). Border Scotland is still SD only though.
Ignore me, I clearly have no idea what I'm talking about...
https://www.stvplc.tv/blog/2019/05/stv-launches-first-fully-regionalised-hd-service-on-sky
Plans for BBC One HD - technologist - 27-01-2022
CCFG post_id=65412 time= user_id=1195 Wrote:Not sure if full regionality will be achieved on Freeview, considering the state of the ITV HD regions on Freeview.Itv is funding a large chunk of the cost of the new PSB3 mux
Which gives them and the BBC Full regionality……
And the resilience that the other PSB muxes have .
( and as other have noted ..itv has not got Full HD regionality on DSAT)
Plans for BBC One HD - CCFG - 27-01-2022
Ah, thanks for that. Didn't really know that.
Plans for BBC One HD - Spencer - 27-01-2022
I wonder if when the BBC One HD regions come to satellite they’ll close the SD regions in order to make use of their transponder space and save money.
Could we end up with the opposite of what we have now — a single BBC One England SD channel with its own Red Screen Of Death instructing viewers to retune to HD for regional programming, or are they obliged to provide an SD regional service despite how few satellite viewers can’t view HD these days?
Plans for BBC One HD - Markymark - 27-01-2022
CCFG post_id=65413 time= user_id=1195 Wrote:James2001 post_id=65411 time= user_id=956 Wrote:The thing with sky is the need to have channel space on the satellite for all the regions, not the easiest thing to do. I don't think all the ITV HD regions are on Satellite for that reason.
Pretty sure they are. They don't have Channel Islands and Border in HD, but that's mainly because Channel HD and Border HD haven't launched yet I'm pretty sure they ITV HD in the Channel Islands via Sky/Freesat via ITV London?
(apologies for the double post, and I also forgot about STV regions)
All the ITV regions and sub regions exist within Chiswick and Leeds as HD playout chains. Even Channel. It's simply cost/benefit why BorderScotland and Channel are not available as broadcasts in HD
Plans for BBC One HD - Orry Verducci - 27-01-2022
CCFG post_id=65413 time= user_id=1195 Wrote:I'm pretty sure they ITV HD in the Channel Islands via Sky/Freesat via ITV London?
No they don't, ITV HD isn't on any of the platforms in the Channel Islands. Or at least it isn't officially (i.e. via the EPG), those who know how to can manually tune it in.
Plans for BBC One HD - Markymark - 27-01-2022
Orry Verducci post_id=65434 time= user_id=731 Wrote:CCFG post_id=65413 time= user_id=1195 Wrote:I'm pretty sure they ITV HD in the Channel Islands via Sky/Freesat via ITV London?
No they don't, ITV HD isn't on any of the platforms in the Channel Islands. Or at least it isn't officially (i.e. via the EPG), those who know how to can manually tune it in.
Isn't the version of PSB3 in the Channel Islands the 'Crystal Palace' version, but with ITV London HD chopped out of the SI, thus making it more or less impossible to receive on domestic spec receivers?
Plans for BBC One HD - CCFG - 27-01-2022
Ah. Thanks for the corrections. Didn't know that Border Scotland HD and Channel HD don't exist because of cost reasons. I simply thought that Border Scotland and Channel were played out in SD.
As for the ITV HD in the Channel Islands, would of thought they would at least have London HD would be on the EPG, but nope. Completely guessing here, but I would assume that 103 on Sky and Freesat would be Channel SD, then 103 on Freeview would be completely blank? Again, feel free to correct me if i'm wrong here.
Plans for BBC One HD - bkman1990 - 28-01-2022
Spencer post_id=65422 time= user_id=891 Wrote:I wonder if when the BBC One HD regions come to satellite they’ll close the SD regions in order to make use of their transponder space and save money.
Could we end up with the opposite of what we have now — a single BBC One England SD channel with its own Red Screen Of Death instructing viewers to retune to HD for regional programming, or are they obliged to provide an SD regional service despite how few satellite viewers can’t view HD these days?
I was wondering about this as well. Now I wouldn't claim too much about know how much spare capacity is needed to uplink BBC One HD on Astra 28.2 in the UK.
I think the BBC would need to consider this decision very carefully to actually try & make sense of their own transmission status on Satellite when it is competing with a pay tv operator for the same capacity in their own country.
It maybe a very valid idea for the BBC to try & pursue the proposal of gradually closing down & removing all SD versions of BBC One SD from right across the UK and have the channel in HD only on Satellite by default. The BBC should assess whether they should do this for the rest of their channels as well as introducing BBC Two NI HD on Sky/Freesat.
I think this idea getting rid of BBC One SD on Sky/Freesat would give ITV a huge incentive to introduce both ITV Border Scotland & ITV Channel Islands in HD.
Although ITV could do this task themselves by maybe getting rid of all of their +1 channels from these platforms with redirecting more of catch-up viewers to watch their programmes on the ITV Hub.
However this maybe a tricky situation to consider if the demands to go HD only is not quite there yet to actually try and do it in a beneficial way for both parties to be happy with it.
Both broadcasters may need to consider how the broadband access in the UK is doing at the moment to see whether their own viewers can access their catch-up services with sufficient broadband access from their homes. Is that situation about obtaining broadband access getting better or not among Sky & Freesat users while they live in their local part of the UK?
Plans for BBC One HD - Markymark - 28-01-2022
For satellite, removing the SD versions is entirely down to the number of SD only Sky and Freesat boxes still in use. For Freesat, very few SD boxes were ever made? Sky have never said how many SD boxes are still in active subscription use, but they'll know, and probably BBC and ITV will know too. That just leaves lapsed subs Sky boxes being used FTA.
ITV have clearly already decided not to worry too much about them, the Beeb (as ever) will just agonise about for several more years I suspect, and in doing so spend millions on dual illumination
Plans for BBC One HD - CCFG - 28-01-2022
Surely the number must be very small now?
Plans for BBC One HD - Markymark - 28-01-2022
CCFG post_id=65485 time= user_id=1195 Wrote:Surely the number must be very small now?
In the words of the late Sir Patrick Moore, 'We simply don't know..!.'
Plans for BBC One HD - Keith - 28-01-2022
bkman1990 post_id=65472 time= user_id=922 Wrote:It maybe a very valid idea for the BBC to try & pursue the proposal of gradually closing down & removing all SD versions of BBC One SD from right across the UK and have the channel in HD only on Satellite by default. The BBC should assess whether they should do this for the rest of their channels as well as introducing BBC Two NI HD on Sky/Freesat.If they were to go down that route I'd suggest the first phase could be have just 6 BBC One SD versions for England, which broadly match up with the 'We Are England' macro-regions. That way it provides some form of service to those without a HD satellite box, and is perhaps slightly better than the red slide. Presumably those larger regions are also design to work with the split for 'BBC One North' whenever it gets introduced.
Presumably with cable there also isn't that many users still with non-HD boxes in use. With Virgin as the company own the boxes rather than the customer it would presumably be easy enough for Virgin to know who was still using a very old box and upgrade it. If that is the case then now HD has been rolled out presumably the HD channel can be swapped to 101. I don't know if there's as much of a cost saving with cable for reducing the number of BBC One SD versions.
Plans for BBC One HD - mrwish - 28-01-2022
Keith post_id=65492 time= user_id=1115 Wrote:If they were to go down that route I'd suggest the first phase could be have just 6 BBC One SD versions for England, which broadly match up with the 'We Are England' macro-regions. That way it provides some form of service to those without a HD satellite box, and is perhaps slightly better than the red slide. Presumably those larger regions are also design to work with the split for 'BBC One North' whenever it gets introduced.
Presumably with cable there also isn't that many users still with non-HD boxes in use. With Virgin as the company own the boxes rather than the customer it would presumably be easy enough for Virgin to know who was still using a very old box and upgrade it. If that is the case then now HD has been rolled out presumably the HD channel can be swapped to 101. I don't know if there's as much of a cost saving with cable for reducing the number of BBC One SD versions.
The SD versions existing at all on Virgin Media any more seems bizarre to me as they are in MPEG4 SD rather than MPEG2. Even Virgin's first HD boxes are long since phased out as they only supported MPEG2, even for HD channels! Any Virgin customer no longer has anything other than an MPEG4 HD capable receiver.
The one difference is that these SD versions of the "main five" channels in SD are FTA on the cable network, where the HD ones are encrypted like the rest of the channels. I wonder if this is some kind of overhang from a legacy rule requiring the 5 PSBs to be FTA, even on cable. In analogue times, the local cable company where I lived certainly provided 1-5 in the clear in UHF for customer TVs and VCRs to be able to use, but I'm not 100% sure if that was actually a legal requirement or not.
Markymark post_id=65439 time= user_id=1078 Wrote:Isn't the version of PSB3 in the Channel Islands the 'Crystal Palace' version, but with ITV London HD chopped out of the SI, thus making it more or less impossible to receive on domestic spec receivers?
I'm trying (so far unsuccessfully) to confirm this, by getting somebody in the neighbouring part of France who can receive Fremont Point to record a full mux dump.
Plans for BBC One HD - RR - 28-01-2022
BBC One SD is no longer on Virgin Media. I believe their remaining box in use with scart rather than HDMI only - TIVO - can downgrade an HD signal to SD if necessary through its scart output.