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+--- Thread: ITV regions debate (/showthread.php?tid=1240)
RE: ITV regions debate - Michael - 21-07-2022
(21-07-2022, 05:05 PM)NancerOnTheLIVEForum Wrote: Another question I have: Before ITV plc was formed in 2004, who owned the trademarks to the ITV name and brand?
Something called "ITV Network Limited" ?
https://trademarks.ipo.gov.uk/ipo-tmcase/page/Results/1/UK0002118267B
RE: ITV regions debate - Stuart - 21-07-2022
(21-07-2022, 09:26 PM)Michael Wrote: Something called "ITV Network Limited" ?
Which was owned by all the ITV franchises, which is why quite reasonably STV were not 'happy bunnies' about ITV plc basically hijacking the name for their new company.
RE: ITV regions debate - NancerOnTheLIVEForum - 22-07-2022
So what I'm assuming is that if you became a franchisee, you owned a part of ITV as a whole?
RE: ITV regions debate - telebox2001 - 22-07-2022
I'm not sure that was the case with the 1993 franchises, after all they were a franchise - which basically gave them the right to transmit ITV programming to that region.
Same way a McDonald's franchise allows Joe Bloggs Restaurants the right to serve McFood, but Maccies themselves don't actually own the business.
What we have now is probably something more akin to the American system, in that most of the country get an "owned-&-operated" service, but Scotland continues to be served by an "affiliate" - which is effectively how the legislation now works.
In the old days, especially pre-1993, did individual regions have to negotiate the rights to air individual programmes? For example, did each region had to pay Granada its own rights fee to air Coronation Street?
RE: ITV regions debate - Steve Williams - 22-07-2022
(22-07-2022, 12:11 AM)NancerOnTheLIVEForum Wrote: So what I'm assuming is that if you became a franchisee, you owned a part of ITV as a whole?
All the individual franchises were part of a body called the ITV Association. The book Independent Television in Britain summaries their activities as follows...
"Its functions ranged from legal and copyright dealings on behalf of the network through marketing, network finance, industrial relations and (where objectives could be agreed upon) political lobbying at Westminster (and, increasingly, in Brussels) to programme planning and the contracting and arrangements for the coverage of sport and other major events by ITV...
"The senior ITV forum for discussion and, if agreement (or, more usually, consensus) was reached, was and remains the Council of the Association. Council consists of the 'principal' of each of the ITV companies. Originally all of these took the title Managing Director but by the end of the eighties the term Chief Executive was increasingly used. The Chairman of Council was... a member of Council elected by his peers for a two year period."
So basically the ITV Association was the organisation that "ran" all the network elements of ITV, from network scheduling to branding and marketing and so on, with each company's MD having a role on its council.
RE: ITV regions debate - Markymark - 22-07-2022
(22-07-2022, 03:25 AM)telebox2001 Wrote: I'm not sure that was the case with the 1993 franchises, after all they were a franchise - which basically gave them the right to transmit ITV programming to that region.
No, 1955 to 1991 (while the ITA/IBA existed) the IBA was the legal entity broadcaster, and the ITV companies held Franchises, and were Programme Contractors.
In 1991 the ITV companies became licence holding broadcasters, and the IBA was split up to form the ITC (TV regulator) Radio Authority (Radio Regulator) and NTL (Transmitter provider)
RE: ITV regions debate - Humphrey Hacker - 22-07-2022
(12-07-2022, 12:34 PM)London Lite Wrote: As part of farming off everything, Carlton along with LWT formed the London News Network which led to the best period of regional news for London on ITV.
While Thames were applauded for their network commissions, Thames News wasn't the best.
From what I understand the only programmes that Carlton made themselves were under the LNN banner (and its sports spinoff LSN). They were publisher broadcasters which meant (I think) that Carlton commissioned independents to make the vast majority of their programmes)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_News_Network#List_of_programmes_produced
RE: ITV regions debate - Rdd - 23-07-2022
The ITV “franchises” were not really franchises in that sense of the word. You weren’t buying a brand/product from a master franchisor and selling it according to their recipe book, in a McDonalds or Burger King sort of way. As said above, the correct term was “programme contractor” until the end of 1992 and “Channel 3 licensee” after that date.
Originally there were two separate associations; the Independent Television Contractors Association (for the Five) and British Regional Television Association (for the Ten), these then merged around the end of the 1960s and became the Independent Television Companies Association; this changed to Independent Television Association in 1988 (so it could be abbreviated to include “ITV”). It further changed to ITV Network Limited in 1998 after incorporating the originally separate ITV Network Centre, which as I say was set up in late 1992 and took over scheduling from September 1993.
RE: ITV regions debate - Inspector Sands - 23-07-2022
(22-07-2022, 09:59 AM)Humphrey Hacker Wrote: From what I understand the only programmes that Carlton made themselves were under the LNN banner (and its sports spinoff LSN). They were publisher broadcasters which meant (I think) that Carlton commissioned independents to make the vast majority of their programmes)No, they weren't Carlton produced programmes, they were LNN productions. LNN was a seperate company - joint owned by Carlton but a seperate operation.
The only programme ever remember being a 'Carlton Production' was Crimestoppers. That of course changed once they renamed Centrals production arm to be Carlton UK Productions
RE: ITV regions debate - Neil Jones - 23-07-2022
(22-07-2022, 03:25 AM)telebox2001 Wrote: In the old days, especially pre-1993, did individual regions have to negotiate the rights to air individual programmes? For example, did each region had to pay Granada its own rights fee to air Coronation Street?
IIRC the peak time hours (ie probably 7pm-10pm) were mostly networked in any case, whiich meant for the most part Corrie would go out across the country at the same time. The ITV company gets it money from the adverts in the normal way, plus whatever they'd flogged for Channel 4.
Suspect the key phrase would be "a Granada Production for ITV" - which suggests it was made for the network and I'd argue any company who wanted it could just "tape" it off the circuits and play it out later.
The idea behind ITV’s structure was that the regions would compete with each other to put programmes on the network, opting in and out of others’ productions as worked best for them. So to answer your question: I would say the answer is no. Regional programming did appear outside of the region it started in though - Take The High Road, once it had stopped being networked, would eventually only appear in areas north of the Midlands (Westcountry excepted) although it was a bread and butter production for STV, who by that point were making it only for the Scottish market, so can't be sure if it falls under the "network" thing without extra wallets being opened.
Imported programming of course was always different; whether it was imported for national airing or whether it was just bought by Grampian, was always going to have to be paid for separately.
RE: ITV regions debate - Inspector Sands - 23-07-2022
But surely there was some incentive for each station to get a programme shown nationally? They must have got a.payment or a share of the ad revenue from the others. Otherwise they wouldn't have much incentive to produce programmes that appealed to a national audience
RE: ITV regions debate - Rdd - 23-07-2022
In the old system, my recollection is that the Five effectively traded each other programmes, so they made a particular portion of the network schedule and got the rest of the schedule in return. For the Ten they paid the Five for the network schedule (at a discount over what it might have cost commercially) and so the commissions they got (and overall, the percentage made by the Ten as opposed to the Five was small) would have got them some money back on this.
After 1993, it was a straightforward payment, the whole point of the new system was that a member of the old Five, the old Ten, or an indie should have been able to pitch and get commissions from the ITV Network Centre without fear or favour based on their status as a licensee or otherwise or what area their license was for.
RE: ITV regions debate - Steve in Pudsey - 23-07-2022
(23-07-2022, 01:25 PM)Neil Jones Wrote:(22-07-2022, 03:25 AM)telebox2001 Wrote: In the old days, especially pre-1993, did individual regions have to negotiate the rights to air individual programmes? For example, did each region had to pay Granada its own rights fee to air Coronation Street?
IIRC the peak time hours (ie probably 7pm-10pm) were mostly networked in any case, whiich meant for the most part Corrie would go out across the country at the same time. The ITV company gets it money from the adverts in the normal way, plus whatever they'd flogged for Channel 4.
But that was by agreement. If Yorkshire wanted to switch Emmerdale and Corrie round in the schedules they could have.
RE: ITV regions debate - Larry the Loafer - 23-07-2022
How would that have worked if (I presume) the shows were being sourced from their respective region? If Granada played out Coronation Street at 7pm, let's say, and for whatever reason, STV wanted to show it at a later time, would STV have to record from their own feed of Coronation Street to play later, or would the regions have their own copy of the programme? I'm guessing the latter would be a logistical nightmare.
RE: ITV regions debate - Steve in Pudsey - 23-07-2022
Same sketch as for Home and Away being shown at different times in different regions, and Crossroads before it.