TV Live Forum

Does anyone know how far IP based systems have entered the world of news broadcasting systems?

I believe BBC Cardiff is 100% end to end IP production, but I've not heard of anyone else using it.

I get the impression that News UK (Murdoch) and LBC might be using IP systems for their video offerings.

IP has been used for news contribution for over 20 years ….
BBC Cardiff production is IP ..but playout is SDI ….
Arround the world un compressed component video SMPTE ST 2110 is used by
The Canadian CBC and most of the broadcasters In Hudson yards NewYork …
…major broadcast centre refurbishments are not that frequent ..
But most big uk OB trucks for the past 4 year have been ST2110 capable ..
So it has very much here ..all be it that until this year NMOS. support has been limited.
And Bloomberg london had been SDI over ip ST 2022-6 for over 3 years …
There has just been an Aims alliance octoberfest last week and a great SMPTE + event
On Tuesday …… look at their websites https://www.smpte.org/ And https://aimsalliance.org/
Or the https://thebroadcastknowledge.com/?s=St+2110

And all major clouds accept ST2110…

On the compressed side in the studio there is NDI ….from Newtek ( and used in GBNews)
and AIMS are working in IPMX ..
Using ST 2110 ideas but compressed and not too tied to PTP ST 2059.

For news as most inout is from the field compressed video is the normal method
and I a pointed out. IP has been around for a long time…
Techniques like SRT have made it even more reliable
and obviously broadcasting from home has speeded things up.

I dont think any broadcaster would consider just SDI these days …..
and more are installing ST2110..

technologist post_id=45560 time= user_id=1158 Wrote:https://t

technologist post_id=45560 time= user_id=1158 Wrote:IP has been used for news contribution for over 20 years ….
BBC Cardiff production is IP ..but playout is SDI ….

hebroadcastknowledge.com/?s=St+2110

Cardiff playout is SDI?! Why is that?

What’s this IP, pictures over the internet dosent that buffer is that why the zoom interviews keep on buffering ?

harshy post_id=45636 time= user_id=970 Wrote:What’s this IP, pictures over the internet dosent that buffer is that why the zoom interviews keep on buffering ?

Zoom has to work on the public Internet where most of us maybe have 20mbps uploads at best.

These IP workflows don’t have the same speed limit.

As the BBC has no permenant International circuits outside a few in Europe and main USA .. this internet thing does work!!!

If you do have live video over IP there are two things that may go wrong:-

• packets get lost

• packets dont arrive at a uniform rate
  

(And if fact if a packet arrives too late it might as well have been lost)

There are four ways of compensating for Packet not getting lost

• Designing your network so it does not loose packets (only good mostly for Internal networks /LANs)

• Sending an number of identical streams and then hitlessly combining them SMPTE ST2022-7 (Mostly ST2110 LAN)

these do not delay the signal and are very good at mimimising delays if packets are not well timed
(Along with having a well sized buffer) while these do

• Sending additional packets (or Bytes in packet) with Error correcting information FEC

• Having some way of rapidly resending any missing packets

These are not very good on very low data rates
- but you can of course have lots of packets with low payload rather than packets with Maximum payload (over 1k bytes)
But small packets are mostly header not data for in someways not very efficient!
note your circuit bit rate has to carry both the header and the payload (video) - if you get this wrong - you loose packets!
And also adding FEC adds data which can easily increase your bit rate 20%

The SRT Protocol works very well by using a range of these techniques
and there is also RIST
This describes them https://thebroadcastknowledge.com/2020/0...-internet/
and now NDI5 can work between facilities https://thebroadcastknowledge.com/2020/0...ew-normal/

And if you use a Professional "Webcam from home" systems - SRT/RIST/NDI
or the VMIx call https://www.vmix.com/products/vmix-call.aspx
these can adapt to your broadband connection far better than Zoom does ( which actually is not that bad!)

About 17 years ago the BBC had Audio and Video over IP over their core network (Reith)
with NO error correction or packet duplication what so ever (Very few packets were lost)
..... and international circuits were either primative ST2022-7 type or with say 20% FEC

Sorry, what’s IP? Seen it in a few posts now.

Moz post_id=45680 time= user_id=746 Wrote:Sorry, what’s IP? Seen it in a few posts now.

Internet Protocol.

valley post_id=45681 time= user_id=971 Wrote:

Moz post_id=45680 time= user_id=746 Wrote:Sorry, what’s IP? Seen it in a few posts now.

Internet Protocol.

So is that the same as “the internet”?

Moz post_id=45686 time= user_id=746 Wrote:

valley post_id=45681 time= user_id=971 Wrote:

Moz post_id=45680 time= user_id=746 Wrote:Sorry, what’s IP? Seen it in a few posts now.

Internet Protocol.

So is that the same as “the internet”?

Not really - what we know as the internet is build upon these Internet Protocols and so are Voice over IP & Video over IP. But those things can just as easily occur on a private network, such as inside an OB truck or a broadcast facility, which people wouldn't normally associate with the word internet.

I'm sure an engineer will be able to give a better description!

Moz post_id=45686 time= user_id=746 Wrote:

valley post_id=45681 time= user_id=971 Wrote:

Moz post_id=45680 time= user_id=746 Wrote:Sorry, what’s IP? Seen it in a few posts now.

Internet Protocol.

So is that the same as “the internet”?

It's the communications protocol that the internet uses, but can and does exist outside of the internet. For instance in a home or office network, IP is used to connect together all your devices, computers, printers, etc. They all have an IP Address (typically 192.168.xxx.xxx or 10.xxx.xxx.xxx) Every device on a network has to have a unique IP address (within that network) You don't need the internet to print something on your printer from your laptop. However, the gateway into 'the internet' is your broadband router (Home Hub etc in BT speak). That connects your devices not only to each other via cable or WiFi, but also to the internet. It transfers messages from your 192.168.... device addresses to the outside world apps that you are using,

IP based broadcast systems exist within their own closed corporate style networks. You do not connect them to to the internet. To connect systems in different places together you'd use dedicated point to point fibre links, or a VPN.....(A VPN is like a closed tube that runs point to point through the internet, without exposing the contents to the internet.